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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => The Basement => Topic started by: Gene Flynn on February 18, 2014, 10:31:51 PM

Title: Danley TH 115 settings??
Post by: Gene Flynn on February 18, 2014, 10:31:51 PM
I currently have 4 TH 115s set at 30 and 105.  Just curious what others have set theirs at??  And why??  I may try and go 30 and 60-70?  Im looking for that hard punch!!!
Thanks
Title: Re: Danley TH 115 settings??
Post by: John Chiara on February 18, 2014, 11:19:28 PM
I currently have 4 TH 115s set at 30 and 105.  Just curious what others have set theirs at??  And why??  I may try and go 30 and 60-70?  Im looking for that hard punch!!!
Thanks

I used to run mine 30-70. What do you mean by 'hard punch?'
On what instrument? I get scared when someone describes what they want in a way that makes me think I  might want to stay at the show for about 10 minutes until the pummeling drives me away! When I listen in the studio some local recordings punch hard but are not HIFI sounding.
Title: Re: Danley TH 115 settings??
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 19, 2014, 07:34:57 AM
I currently have 4 TH 115s set at 30 and 105.  Just curious what others have set theirs at??  And why??  I may try and go 30 and 60-70?  Im looking for that hard punch!!!
Thanks
It really depends on the rest of your system-how you run it setup wise and so forth.

What are your main?  How low do they REALLY go?

Are you running the subs on an aux or just crossed over into the mains with the same signal.

How well aligned are the Th115s to the mains?  That can make a HUGE difference in the punch/slam/impact of the system. 

The "punch" is in the upper range of the bass area-give or take 80-120Hz.

I have crossed over out of the TH115s (lowpass) anywhere from 60 to 120Hz.  It just depends on the particular situation-what the other cabinets are and so forth.
Title: Re: Danley TH 115 settings??
Post by: Gene Flynn on February 19, 2014, 11:42:44 AM
This is strictly play back no instruments.  The mains are 2 pair Klipsch laScala's and soon to be a pair of SH 110Bs.  The subs are run from 2 Crown XTI 6002- both pairs.  LS have there own amps.. run in stereo.  not sure what you mean by aligned? (im still pretty new to this so excuse my arrogance). 
I have the 4 Danleys together in the middle, i 21 active CV sub on both sides and the LS (stacked) next to that.  The wall is 18' and it takes it all up.  Not sure where im going to put the 100Bs??
Thanks
It really depends on the rest of your system-how you run it setup wise and so forth.

What are your main?  How low do they REALLY go?

Are you running the subs on an aux or just crossed over into the mains with the same signal.

How well aligned are the Th115s to the mains?  That can make a HUGE difference in the punch/slam/impact of the system. 

The "punch" is in the upper range of the bass area-give or take 80-120Hz.

I have crossed over out of the TH115s (lowpass) anywhere from 60 to 120Hz.  It just depends on the particular situation-what the other cabinets are and so forth.
Title: Re: Danley TH 115 settings??
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 19, 2014, 01:12:07 PM
This is strictly play back no instruments.  The mains are 2 pair Klipsch laScala's and soon to be a pair of SH 110Bs.  The subs are run from 2 Crown XTI 6002- both pairs.  LS have there own amps.. run in stereo.  not sure what you mean by aligned? (im still pretty new to this so excuse my arrogance). 
I have the 4 Danleys together in the middle, i 21 active CV sub on both sides and the LS (stacked) next to that.  The wall is 18' and it takes it all up.  Not sure where im going to put the 100Bs??
Thanks
It is NOT a good idea to simply pile speakers up-especially different model numbers.

Yes it will get louder-but you will also make it sound worse since the different speakers will be working against each other at certain freq.

Since you already have subs-I would suggest the SM100F instead of the SM100B.

It is less expensive-does not go as low (you need the low freq) but is louder and the same physical size

By aligning-I mean the delay-crossover-eq applied to the various cabinets so that the amplitude and most importantly the phase response is well behaved.

With a "mis match" of cabinets" the actual response could be all over the place and there is no way anybody can suggest something (without measuring) that would likely be of much help.

What I would do is to simply "play" with the crossover settings until you get something you are happy with.

Also remember to use different styles/artists etc when listening.  You may find a setting that works for one song-but is worse for another.  This is a good indicator that something is not properly lined up.

Using different model subs is almost never a good idea-because of the different phase and amplitude response.  But sometimes people get "lucky"
Title: Re: Danley TH 115 settings??
Post by: Gene Flynn on February 19, 2014, 01:46:57 PM
I understand Ivan..  This is quite a learning phase!!  It makes sense..  I wish I could have somebody like you come out and tell me exactly what i need.  This trial and error is more costly then just having you guys come out..  But, it is also fun and im learning..  Thank you for your time!!
It is NOT a good idea to simply pile speakers up-especially different model numbers.

Yes it will get louder-but you will also make it sound worse since the different speakers will be working against each other at certain freq.

Since you already have subs-I would suggest the SM100F instead of the SM100B.

It is less expensive-does not go as low (you need the low freq) but is louder and the same physical size

By aligning-I mean the delay-crossover-eq applied to the various cabinets so that the amplitude and most importantly the phase response is well behaved.

With a "mis match" of cabinets" the actual response could be all over the place and there is no way anybody can suggest something (without measuring) that would likely be of much help.

What I would do is to simply "play" with the crossover settings until you get something you are happy with.

Also remember to use different styles/artists etc when listening.  You may find a setting that works for one song-but is worse for another.  This is a good indicator that something is not properly lined up.

Using different model subs is almost never a good idea-because of the different phase and amplitude response.  But sometimes people get "lucky"
Title: Re: Danley TH 115 settings??
Post by: Gene Flynn on February 19, 2014, 01:52:31 PM
Ivan, can you explain more why the 100F would be preferable over the 100B??
 author=Ivan Beaver link=topic=148414.msg1363336#msg1363336 date=1392833527]
It is NOT a good idea to simply pile speakers up-especially different model numbers.

Yes it will get louder-but you will also make it sound worse since the different speakers will be working against each other at certain freq.

Since you already have subs-I would suggest the SM100F instead of the SM100B.

It is less expensive-does not go as low (you need the low freq) but is louder and the same physical size

By aligning-I mean the delay-crossover-eq applied to the various cabinets so that the amplitude and most importantly the phase response is well behaved.

With a "mis match" of cabinets" the actual response could be all over the place and there is no way anybody can suggest something (without measuring) that would likely be of much help.

What I would do is to simply "play" with the crossover settings until you get something you are happy with.

Also remember to use different styles/artists etc when listening.  You may find a setting that works for one song-but is worse for another.  This is a good indicator that something is not properly lined up.

Using different model subs is almost never a good idea-because of the different phase and amplitude response.  But sometimes people get "lucky"
[/quote]
Title: Re: Danley TH 115 settings??
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 19, 2014, 02:28:14 PM
Ivan, can you explain more why the 100F would be preferable over the 100B??
 author=Ivan Beaver link=topic=148414.msg1363336#msg1363336 date=1392833527]
It is NOT a good idea to simply pile speakers up-especially different model numbers.

Yes it will get louder-but you will also make it sound worse since the different speakers will be working against each other at certain freq.

Since you already have subs-I would suggest the SM100F instead of the SM100B.

It is less expensive-does not go as low (you need the low freq) but is louder and the same physical size


By aligning-I mean the delay-crossover-eq applied to the various cabinets so that the amplitude and most importantly the phase response is well behaved.

With a "mis match" of cabinets" the actual response could be all over the place and there is no way anybody can suggest something (without measuring) that would likely be of much help.

What I would do is to simply "play" with the crossover settings until you get something you are happy with.

Also remember to use different styles/artists etc when listening.  You may find a setting that works for one song-but is worse for another.  This is a good indicator that something is not properly lined up.

Using different model subs is almost never a good idea-because of the different phase and amplitude response.  But sometimes people get "lucky"
Title: Re: Danley TH 115 settings??
Post by: Gene Flynn on February 19, 2014, 02:37:31 PM
I know, I just thought I had enough low freq. with the subs??  Thats

Title: Re: Danley TH 115 settings??
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 19, 2014, 02:59:03 PM
I know, I just thought I had enough low freq. with the subs??  Thats

I think Ivan left something out...  with subs, you have enough LF.  The 100F was designed to do what is suggested.  The 100B goes lower, as it was intended to be used as a full range (ish) speaker.  You don't need some of what it does...
Title: Re: Danley TH 115 settings??
Post by: Art Welter on February 19, 2014, 02:59:22 PM
I know, I just thought I had enough low freq. with the subs??  Thats
Which is why you don't need another set of low frequency devices contained in the SM100 B (for bass) mucking up the already murky stew.

Considering the variety of phase response in your pile of bass stuff, you may be much better off spreading them around the room to even out modal response.
Title: Re: Danley TH 115 settings??
Post by: Gene Flynn on February 19, 2014, 03:35:24 PM
Yes sir, now that makes sense...  Thank you..
I think Ivan left something out...  with subs, you have enough LF.  The 100F was designed to do what is suggested.  The 100B goes lower, as it was intended to be used as a full range (ish) speaker.  You don't need some of what it does...
Title: Re: Danley TH 115 settings??
Post by: Gene Flynn on February 19, 2014, 03:37:35 PM
Yes Art, was thinking of moving some things around and see what happens!!  Now the 115s are 4 in a row in the center.  i think i will put 2 on each side and have a listen..  Thanks
Which is why you don't need another set of low frequency devices contained in the SM100 B (for bass) mucking up the already murky stew.

Considering the variety of phase response in your pile of bass stuff, you may be much better off spreading them around the room to even out modal response.
Title: Re: Danley TH 115 settings??
Post by: Mac Kerr on February 19, 2014, 04:52:25 PM
I currently have 4 TH 115s set at 30 and 105.  Just curious what others have set theirs at??  And why??  I may try and go 30 and 60-70?  Im looking for that hard punch!!!
Thanks

What kind of venue is this?

Mac
Title: Re: Danley TH 115 settings??
Post by: Gene Flynn on February 19, 2014, 05:28:21 PM
Mac this is my private gym..  800 sq. ft. just music playback..  I am trying to create that live raw sound!!  Like in a live venue..  I know over kill but thats me.. :o
What kind of venue is this?

Mac
Title: Re: Danley TH 115 settings??
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 19, 2014, 06:19:52 PM
I know, I just thought I had enough low freq. with the subs??  Thats
Maybe to put it another way.  The SM100B offers a nice deep bass response in a full range cabinet.

The SM100F uses the same horn-but a stronger coax driver and a single 15" woofer instead of the 4x8" of the SM100B.

The sensitivity of the SM100F is higher-but the response does not go as low.  You already have subs to cover the low freq-so going any lower has no advantage-but the greater output can come in handy.

If you were asking for home stereo mains-then the Sm100B would be a better choice.
Title: Re: Danley TH 115 settings??
Post by: Gene Flynn on February 19, 2014, 07:01:18 PM
I have decided to go with the SM 100F's....  I will give a report when i get them..  So Ivan how would you then set the xover??  Say subs from 30 to 60 and the F's from 60 up??
Thanks
Maybe to put it another way.  The SM100B offers a nice deep bass response in a full range cabinet.

The SM100F uses the same horn-but a stronger coax driver and a single 15" woofer instead of the 4x8" of the SM100B.

The sensitivity of the SM100F is higher-but the response does not go as low.  You already have subs to cover the low freq-so going any lower has no advantage-but the greater output can come in handy.

If you were asking for home stereo mains-then the Sm100B would be a better choice.
Title: Re: Danley TH 115 settings??
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 19, 2014, 07:13:42 PM
I have decided to go with the SM 100F's....  I will give a report when i get them..  So Ivan how would you then set the xover??  Say subs from 30 to 60 and the F's from 60 up??
Thanks
It depends on whether you are talking electrical (which most people do) or acoustical crossover-(the IMPORTANT one).

Since the subs are often run much hotter than the mains (typically 15dB to as much as 25dB) the acoustical crossover is higher than the electrical settings.

It is for this reason that the sub low pass and main highpass are not the same freq.

Often there is a "apparent gap" in the freq response-but in reality there is not-due to the subs being run hotter.


For a TH115/Sm100F combo-I would run the subs up to around 70-80Hz (electrically) and high pass the Sm100F around 100hz.  Those are just quick "off the cuff" suggestions.

Of course it also depends on what type of crossover you have and what it is capable of.

We do not have "official" settings for that combo yet.

It also depends on the power available for each of the freq bands.  If one band is "running out" then it can be narrowed to remove some of the "strain" since there is a good bit of overlap between the boxes.
Title: Re: Danley TH 115 settings??
Post by: Gene Flynn on February 19, 2014, 08:30:44 PM
Yes Sir, following so far..  I am using the 2- Crown XTI 6002 (stereo) for the subs and I just got another for the 100F also run full.  The xovers are built in and set via computer to amp with the Harman HiQnet Band Manager and System Architect software..  I use the 24db butterworth for the subs.. im sure the same would go for the 100F?
Thanks
It depends on whether you are talking electrical (which most people do) or acoustical crossover-(the IMPORTANT one).

Since the subs are often run much hotter than the mains (typically 15dB to as much as 25dB) the acoustical crossover is higher than the electrical settings.

It is for this reason that the sub low pass and main highpass are not the same freq.

Often there is a "apparent gap" in the freq response-but in reality there is not-due to the subs being run hotter.


For a TH115/Sm100F combo-I would run the subs up to around 70-80Hz (electrically) and high pass the Sm100F around 100hz.  Those are just quick "off the cuff" suggestions.

Of course it also depends on what type of crossover you have and what it is capable of.

We do not have "official" settings for that combo yet.

It also depends on the power available for each of the freq bands.  If one band is "running out" then it can be narrowed to remove some of the "strain" since there is a good bit of overlap between the boxes.