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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Bob Leonard on May 29, 2014, 12:16:20 AM
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Is it me or does it seem to anyone else QSC's latest offerings are geared more towards the install market than for live sound or touring. I base this perception on the lack of two channel DSP equipped high output amplifiers vs. the many lines of available 4 channel amplifiers. What gives QSC?
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My guess is they found out the money is in Installs, and MI geared speakers such as the K series.
- Tony Williams
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Top tier touring has moved towards self-powered or whole-package systems.
QSC is spending development dollars where they will make their greatest return.
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QSC is spending development dollars where they will make their greatest return.
Like on the tiny mixer that 100 people might buy...
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Like on the tiny mixer that 100 people might buy...
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Actually there is a bigger market for "tiny" mixers than big ones. I think they will sell a ton of them.
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Is it me or does it seem to anyone else QSC's latest offerings are geared more towards the install market than for live sound or touring. I base this perception on the lack of two channel DSP equipped high output amplifiers vs. the many lines of available 4 channel amplifiers. What gives QSC?
Bam http://www.qsc.com/products/Power_Amplifiers/Pld_Series/PLD4.5/ (http://www.qsc.com/products/Power_Amplifiers/Pld_Series/PLD4.5/)
2250W/ch in 2ch mode, with DSP.
What more are you looking for?
Jason
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I can't wait to get rid of my boring old 2 channel amps and move into 4 channel units. Reduced rack space, but added flexibility of deciding how much power I need with less gear. I love it. Only wish Ethernet connectivity was an option.
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I can't wait to get rid of my boring old 2 channel amps and move into 4 channel units. Reduced rack space, but added flexibility of deciding how much power I need with less gear. I love it. Only wish Ethernet connectivity was an option.
Agreed! I just bought a couple of Powersoft M50Q -- 4 channels X 750w@8 ohms or 1250w @ 4 ohms DSP + ETH and best part: ONE rack space! My racks just got smaller!
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Bam http://www.qsc.com/products/Power_Amplifiers/Pld_Series/PLD4.5/ (http://www.qsc.com/products/Power_Amplifiers/Pld_Series/PLD4.5/)
2250W/ch in 2ch mode, with DSP.
What more are you looking for?
Jason
My reference is to the quantity of 4 channel 72v installation type amplifiers QSC seems to have at this time. A much larger choice than the choices available for either 2 or 4 channel amplifiers with built in DSP.
And if all your looking for is 1200 watts per channel I suppose you've made your point. However, summing a pair channels in a four channel amp to achieve enough output to power your cabinets tends to defeat the purpose of a 4 channel amp. duh.
I do however agree that a 4 channel amp will be the way to go. Lighter, more compact, etc. However, my question was concerning the apparent emphasis QSC has placed on amplifiers specifically marketed for installation purposes, not the one line of 4 channel amplifiers with low output they now have available for pro sound purposes. I had actually expected to see a DSP equipped 380 in the lineup at some point.
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My reference is to the quantity of 4 channel 72v installation type amplifiers QSC seems to have at this time. A much larger choice than the choices available for either 2 or 4 channel amplifiers with built in DSP.
And if all your looking for is 1200 watts per channel I suppose you've made your point. However, summing a pair channels in a four channel amp to achieve enough output to power your cabinets tends to defeat the purpose of a 4 channel amp. duh.
I do however agree that a 4 channel amp will be the way to go. Lighter, more compact, etc. However, my question was concerning the apparent emphasis QSC has placed on amplifiers specifically marketed for installation purposes, not the one line of 4 channel amplifiers with low output they now have available for pro sound purposes. I had actually expected to see a DSP equipped 380 in the lineup at some point.
Sounds like QSC is comfortable in the touring market (and doing well) and has decided to branch out further into the installed side. I don't think install sound is where they are heading.
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It seems that with QSC having Qsys that is where the DSP dollars go. Not to mention most of their speakers are powered, I take this as them not needing interfaceable DSP. If the amp is made specifically for a speaker model there is not much DSP to interface with. I think QSC also did support DSP in their amps just not in the way the other companies have moved forward with. QSC amps used plugin cards I thought. If the install market is their direction then that makes Qsys one hell of a DSP they offer compared to some of the other amp companies.
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Sounds like QSC is comfortable in the touring market (and doing well) and has decided to branch out further into the installed side. I don't think install sound is where they are heading.
I don't think they are comfortable at all in the "touring" market. Regional probably, but someone name (quickly :-) a big time tour vendor with QSC amps on the road.
Reason = "the package".
NEXO - NXAMP
VerTec / VTX - iTech HD
L'Acoustics, db audiotechnik, etc etc etc
And then we have self powered.
I'm sure they sell a metric assload of RMX and PLX. With so many players in the high-power amp market, maybe QSC never goes beyond their current power point.
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My reference is to the quantity of 4 channel 72v installation type amplifiers QSC seems to have at this time. A much larger choice than the choices available for either 2 or 4 channel amplifiers with built in DSP.
"Mama always told not to look into the eyes of the sun/ but Mama, that's where the fun is!"
QSC isn't the only company to look into the eyes of the install market. Every time a public building or commercial space is built, remodeled or leased, commercial audio installation will be needed. Those installations represent a much better business plan than building rugged, high powered, DSP based amps for customers who intend to run them 10 years before considering replacement. So, I'm a good Crown customer once a decade, but the commercial audio installers are good customers every month. Where does it make the most sense for Crown to allocate resources?
Portable sound systems/componentry for "serious live use" is a small market in the grand scheme of All Things Audio.
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Don't think it's an either/or calculus. Any larger amp company appreciates that similar technology can work across multiple markets.
At the risk of repeating the obvious, the touring market is nice for the line leader visibility, but does not amount to many dollars.
I am impressed by QSC's vision to expand into powered speakers as an amp company to protect their flank. Perhaps they read the same writing on the wall I did (while I have been writing that on the wall). :-)
JR
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I don't think they are comfortable at all in the "touring" market. Regional probably, but someone name (quickly :-) a big time tour vendor with QSC amps on the road.
Someone name a DSP more expensive then a Qsys Core 4000.
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"Mama always told not to look into the eyes of the sun/ but Mama, that's where the fun is!"
QSC isn't the only company to look into the eyes of the install market. Every time a public building or commercial space is built, remodeled or leased, commercial audio installation will be needed. Those installations represent a much better business plan than building rugged, high powered, DSP based amps for customers who intend to run them 10 years before considering replacement. So, I'm a good Crown customer once a decade, but the commercial audio installers are good customers every month. Where does it make the most sense for Crown to allocate resources?
Portable sound systems/componentry for "serious live use" is a small market in the grand scheme of All Things Audio.
Wisdom from a loudspeaker manufacturer:
They can sell a dozen loudspeakers to a sound company once, or a couple hundred every time they are specified for a large install. "That's why we don't really care much about truck pack dimensions or rigging hardware", paraphrasing.
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All the above makes good sense, and all points are relevant, in particular those concerning installation. What jerked my chain was what appeared to be a change in strategy with the devotion of so many lines aimed at installers. Being a QSC fanboy I was hoping to see something come out that might replace a rack load of very heavy 4050HD amplifiers and a dbx 4800 DSP. Alas, that appears not to be poor Yorick.
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All the above makes good sense, and all points are relevant, in particular those concerning installation. What jerked my chain was what appeared to be a change in strategy with the devotion of so many lines aimed at installers. Being a QSC fanboy I was hoping to see something come out that might replace a rack load of very heavy 4050HD amplifiers and a dbx 4800 DSP. Alas, that appears not to be poor Yorick.
lab.gruppen, Powersoft, other 4-channel amps. Sometimes you just gotta make a change.... ;-)
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All the above makes good sense, and all points are relevant, in particular those concerning installation. What jerked my chain was what appeared to be a change in strategy with the devotion of so many lines aimed at installers. Being a QSC fanboy I was hoping to see something come out that might replace a rack load of very heavy 4050HD amplifiers and a dbx 4800 DSP. Alas, that appears not to be poor Yorick.
I just looked at their website amplifier page and they have 12 different series of power amps.
It looks to me like they are still servicing all markets.
JR
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My reference is to the quantity of 4 channel 72v installation type amplifiers QSC seems to have at this time. A much larger choice than the choices available for either 2 or 4 channel amplifiers with built in DSP.
And if all your looking for is 1200 watts per channel I suppose you've made your point. However, summing a pair channels in a four channel amp to achieve enough output to power your cabinets tends to defeat the purpose of a 4 channel amp. duh.
I do however agree that a 4 channel amp will be the way to go. Lighter, more compact, etc. However, my question was concerning the apparent emphasis QSC has placed on amplifiers specifically marketed for installation purposes, not the one line of 4 channel amplifiers with low output they now have available for pro sound purposes. I had actually expected to see a DSP equipped 380 in the lineup at some point.
I guess with their new ability to selectively parallel output components or not, if they made a 2ch amp it would really be 4ch worth of components permanently combined. why not open up the ability to separate the channels if you want?
For the cost of connectors the amp becomes way more flexible
Jason
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I guess with their new ability to selectively parallel output components or not, if they made a 2ch amp it would really be 4ch worth of components permanently combined. why not open up the ability to separate the channels if you want?
For the cost of connectors the amp becomes way more flexible
Jason
I agree. Seems to me that they have a two channel PL380 hiding inside a four channel PL340 with DSP, and not a terrible price point. I've haven't used these myself but would love to try one out.
Jason
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I guess with their new ability to selectively parallel output components or not, if they made a 2ch amp it would really be 4ch worth of components permanently combined. why not open up the ability to separate the channels if you want?
For the cost of connectors the amp becomes way more flexible
Jason
Yup, without getting all esoteric, theres another subtle thing about class D where you can make one high current power supply and then hang 4 or more class D amp sections off that one supply to make 4 amps that are capable of .25x+.25x+.25x+.25x, or .4x+.4x+.1x+.1x, or whatever combination that adds up to 100%. Add a 1x4 DSP in front and you have a nice engine for powered speakers.
JR
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Hey John, while you're at it why don't you and some of the other more knowledgeable members provide us with a real understanding of "burst" power.
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After my experience with PL380's not holding up with a 2 point something ohm load and service after, I've moved to all lab gruppen and powersoft. Haven't looked back and been happier for it. Too many engineers come in and him haw about the qsc's when we had them. Now, I can focus on making the systems the best they can be without dealing with the engineers being sh*tty about amp choices. For the record, 3-600watt, 8ohm drivers connected in parallel on each side of a pl380. Cooked 2 of them. Almost the cost of a new amp, 2 or 3 months out of warranty
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After my experience with PL380's not holding up with a 2 point something ohm load and service after,
For the record, 3-600watt, 8ohm drivers connected in parallel on each side of a pl380. Cooked 2 of them. Almost the cost of a new amp, 2 or 3 months out of warranty
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Never seen this, we run 380s on sub duty at a 2ohm load all the time. Never so much as a blink. Just pure, reliable power. What was determined to be the issue?
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Someone name a DSP more expensive then a Qsys Core 4000.
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How about two QSYS Core 4000's in a redundant configuration? And yes, I know of a project! :p
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How about two QSYS Core 4000's in a redundant configuration? And yes, I know of a project! :p
I just finished one as well!
http://qsc.com/media-and-events/news/university-wisconsin-stadium-takes-complete-control-qsc/
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I own a PLD4.5. I'm very impressed with it's performance.
It's used as a single amp to power two big bi-amp monitors. I've also used it to temporarily power some club install speakers-where it really shined.
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I just finished one as well!
http://qsc.com/media-and-events/news/university-wisconsin-stadium-takes-complete-control-qsc/ (http://qsc.com/media-and-events/news/university-wisconsin-stadium-takes-complete-control-qsc/)
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That is an impressive install. Congratulations on a job well done!!
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Hey John, while you're at it why don't you and some of the other more knowledgeable members provide us with a real understanding of "burst" power.
Back in the old, old days there used to be an IHF spec for sine wave tone burst testing that specified a duty cycle and burst ratio. I do not know that there is a modern equivalent, so I do not know exactly "what" burst power is, but I do know "why" burst power is specified. Modern high output amplifiers do not put out full power continuously, they haven't for decades. So burst power is an attempt to characterize the short term power of an amplifier before the power supply collapses or protection circuits kick in.
I would expect a range of different burst power envelopes depending on what is the controlling limitations are.
JR
PS: I designed an oddball power amp while at Peavey that used a PS boost circuit so it could momentarily put out 4x it's continuous power for short term peaks. The technology was not cost effective to scale up to higher power points so I only made one modest power version.
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is there a Itech 6000 equivalent in qsc? i have had great experience with qsc - meaning I never blew one up and never had one ever give me any trouble - but I would like to switch to some itechs or macro techs for my srx725s and 718s - I have 2450's and plx3002's and a gx7(my least favorite but newest one)