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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => AC Power and Grounding => Topic started by: Mike Sokol on February 10, 2014, 04:16:18 PM
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This is terrible. It appears a girl was dancing in the rain when she came in contact with an in-ground junction box that wasn't properly grounded. http://ecmweb.com/around-circuit/girl-dies-shock-city-street?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ECMMostRecent+%28Electrical+Construction+%26+Maintenance%29&Issue=ECM-04_20140210_ECM-04_901&NL=ECM-04&cl=article_10_b&sfvc4enews=42&YM_RID=mike%40noshockzone.org&YM_MID=1448312 (http://ecmweb.com/around-circuit/girl-dies-shock-city-street?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ECMMostRecent+%28Electrical+Construction+%26+Maintenance%29&Issue=ECM-04_20140210_ECM-04_901&NL=ECM-04&cl=article_10_b&sfvc4enews=42&YM_RID=mike%40noshockzone.org&YM_MID=1448312)
Everyone thinks I'm a bit nuts when I walk around with a Non Contact Voltage Tester checking out street light poles and junction boxes. A standard 90-1,000 volt NCVT would have lit up and beeped from a foot or more away from this "hot" box.
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This is terrible. It appears a girl was dancing in the rain when she came in contact with an in-ground junction box that wasn't properly grounded. http://ecmweb.com/around-circuit/girl-dies-shock-city-street?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ECMMostRecent+%28Electrical+Construction+%26+Maintenance%29&Issue=ECM-04_20140210_ECM-04_901&NL=ECM-04&cl=article_10_b&sfvc4enews=42&YM_RID=mike%40noshockzone.org&YM_MID=1448312 (http://ecmweb.com/around-circuit/girl-dies-shock-city-street?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ECMMostRecent+%28Electrical+Construction+%26+Maintenance%29&Issue=ECM-04_20140210_ECM-04_901&NL=ECM-04&cl=article_10_b&sfvc4enews=42&YM_RID=mike%40noshockzone.org&YM_MID=1448312)
Everyone thinks I'm a bit nuts when I walk around with a Non Contact Voltage Tester checking out street light poles and junction boxes. A standard 90-1,000 volt NCVT would have lit up and beeped from a foot or more away from this "hot" box.
This is semi-local, Salina is about 80 miles North of us. Tragic for the family.
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This is semi-local, Salina is about 80 miles North of us. Tragic for the family.
Here is some more info.
http://interactives.ksn.com/photomojo/gallery/10849/207256/inside-look-of-in-ground-junction-box/inside-look-of-in-ground-junction-box/
http://ksn.com/2014/01/31/report-and-photos-of-electrical-shocking-incident-at-campbell-plaza/
Mike Keep up the good work. I am sure you have saved a few lives
She would have had a better chance of living if a loaded gun had been laying there instead of a ungrounded box.
Frank
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Here is some more info.
http://interactives.ksn.com/photomojo/gallery/10849/207256/inside-look-of-in-ground-junction-box/inside-look-of-in-ground-junction-box/
http://ksn.com/2014/01/31/report-and-photos-of-electrical-shocking-incident-at-campbell-plaza/
Mike Keep up the good work. I am sure you have saved a few lives
She would have had a better chance of living if a loaded gun had been laying there instead of a ungrounded box.
Frank
I'm sure someone thought "hey, that box is in the ground, so it's grounded." :(
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I'm sure someone thought "hey, that box is in the ground, so it's grounded." :(
Yeah, I get RV owners who argue with me that putting their leveling jacks on the "ground" actually "grounds" their RV. That's a bunch of crap... >:(
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Yeah, I get RV owners who argue with me that putting their leveling jacks on the "ground" actually "grounds" their RV. That's a bunch of crap... >:(
Perhaps grounded in the event of a lightning strike.... ::)
Mistakes and sloppy practices can have serious consequences. We need to constantly remind ourselves that electricity can bite us when we least expect. While dancing outdoors in the rain can invite other serious shock hazards... like during thunder storms. I have been caught running in the rain and experienced some lightning strikes that hit close enough to make me uncomfortable.
Money and contrition will not bring that girl back. RIP
JR
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This is terrible. It appears a girl was dancing in the rain when she came in contact with an in-ground junction box that wasn't properly grounded. http://ecmweb.com/around-circuit/girl-dies-shock-city-street?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ECMMostRecent+%28Electrical+Construction+%26+Maintenance%29&Issue=ECM-04_20140210_ECM-04_901&NL=ECM-04&cl=article_10_b&sfvc4enews=42&YM_RID=mike%40noshockzone.org&YM_MID=1448312 (http://ecmweb.com/around-circuit/girl-dies-shock-city-street?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ECMMostRecent+%28Electrical+Construction+%26+Maintenance%29&Issue=ECM-04_20140210_ECM-04_901&NL=ECM-04&cl=article_10_b&sfvc4enews=42&YM_RID=mike%40noshockzone.org&YM_MID=1448312)
Everyone thinks I'm a bit nuts when I walk around with a Non Contact Voltage Tester checking out street light poles and junction boxes. A standard 90-1,000 volt NCVT would have lit up and beeped from a foot or more away from this "hot" box.
We get occasional reports of live sidewalk sections in the city, where underground service equipment has failed, and energizes things. Reports of dogs getting zapped while being walked are not rare.
Best regards,
John
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We get occasional reports of live sidewalk sections in the city, where underground service equipment has failed, and energizes things. Reports of dogs getting zapped while being walked are not rare.
A couple years ago in Seattle a dog was electrocuted by a light pole that was hot-skin electrified due to a poor ground. They then implemented a testing and grounding program that found 158 streetlights with improper grounding and voltage on them. See http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2011/02/seattle_utility_finds_158_dangerous_light_poles_plates_after_dog_electrocuted.html (http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2011/02/seattle_utility_finds_158_dangerous_light_poles_plates_after_dog_electrocuted.html)
It's a shame that testing and repair only gets done after somebody or their pet dies.
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Some large systems like ConEd in NYC do routine checks for hot street poles, etc. unfortunately this is not as common across the country.
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A couple years ago in Seattle a dog was electrocuted by a light pole...
Many years ago, my sister-in-law put an electric fence (like the kind on farms) around her flowerbed to keep my brother's dog out. Naturally, the dog being curious, he had to check out what this new thing was. Upon sticking his nose on the fence, it zapped him. Well, he didn't think much of being punched in the nose, so he turned around and lifted his leg on it.
He hobbled over to the shade, laid down, and whimpered for a while.
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We get occasional reports of live sidewalk sections in the city, where underground service equipment has failed, and energizes things. Reports of dogs getting zapped while being walked are not rare.
There's also a surprising number of horse electrocutions in their own stalls, in paddocks, or sometimes while on police patrol. Here's just one example http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/horse_racing/9395743.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/horse_racing/9395743.stm)
I've also posted on some of the diesel truck pages about block heaters causing pickup trucks and their connected horse trailers to become "hot-skin" electrified, killing horses. Apparently their hooves are quite conductive and their hearts are as sensitive to electric shock as humans.
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Had a stable owner ask me to remove a GFCI from a horse waterer 2 weeks ago because it kept tripping. I reminded him that since his business was boarding horses, killing one might put a damper on is livlihood! Told him to do the right thing and fix the waterer. Why is it always the safety devices fault?
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This is terrible. It appears a girl was dancing in the rain when she came in contact with an in-ground junction box that wasn't properly grounded. http://ecmweb.com/around-circuit/girl-dies-shock-city-street?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ECMMostRecent+%28Electrical+Construction+%26+Maintenance%29&Issue=ECM-04_20140210_ECM-04_901&NL=ECM-04&cl=article_10_b&sfvc4enews=42&YM_RID=mike%40noshockzone.org&YM_MID=1448312 (http://ecmweb.com/around-circuit/girl-dies-shock-city-street?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ECMMostRecent+%28Electrical+Construction+%26+Maintenance%29&Issue=ECM-04_20140210_ECM-04_901&NL=ECM-04&cl=article_10_b&sfvc4enews=42&YM_RID=mike%40noshockzone.org&YM_MID=1448312)
Everyone thinks I'm a bit nuts when I walk around with a Non Contact Voltage Tester checking out street light poles and junction boxes. A standard 90-1,000 volt NCVT would have lit up and beeped from a foot or more away from this "hot" box.
that terrible. 12 years old? my prayers go out to their family. Its deaths like this that can be avoided too. Unfortunate.
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that terrible. 12 years old? my prayers go out to their family. Its deaths like this that can be avoided too. Unfortunate.
Here's a pic of me doing a hot-skin demonstration on a model of a VW RV. I've given away hundreds of these Non Contact Voltage Testers (NCVTs) to RV owners and community watch groups around the country. Note that even the standard sensitivity NCVTs (90-1,000 volts) will beep like crazy from as much as 2 feet away large surface energized to 120-volts, or beep when you touch it to an energized surface with as little as 40-volts on a microphone or guitar amp with an improper ground. I highly recommend that all sound-techs keep a NCVT in their road kit, and do a quick check of the stage for anything "hot". Even though your sound system might be correctly grounded, a musician with a broken ground connection on their stage amp can get a serious shock "from the mic" and blame YOU for the shock. That's because his or her wet lips on the grounded mic will FEEL the voltage is coming from the mic, when it's actually coming from the strings of their guitar.
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Family files lawsuit-
http://www.kansas.com/2014/02/20/3300691/salina-family-sues-in-death-from.html
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Family files lawsuit-
http://www.kansas.com/2014/02/20/3300691/salina-family-sues-in-death-from.html
An awful story - one of laziness and turning a blind eye. And the long, protracted death makes it all the worse.
"The lawsuit says a city electrician told investigators "he knew there was no ground wire as they had not installed the ground", and that "if they had installed the ground wire, every time there was a power surge, it would trip the breaker and all he would get done would be resetting the breaker."
The electrician's quotes were taken from reports that Salina police or fire investigators made on the day of the incident or soon after, said Michael Rader, a Leawood attorney representing the Hicks family.
Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2014/02/20/3300691/salina-family-sues-in-death-from.html#storylink=cpy "
Wow. I wonder how many other boxes in that city are similarly wired to be protected from having the breaker trip in the rain.
I guess the city electrician is the code compliance offer, too... or the code compliance official was laying down on the job, too.
You think other cities may have followed the same practice?
Maybe there's more to the story from the vault manufacturer.
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Could not knowingly/willfully creating and allowing a safety hazard put the electrician at risk for a criminal offense? Unfortunately, far to often the solution to "nuisance" trips-be they OC or GFCI is to eliminate the safety device-bigger fuse, remove GFCI, cut off ground pin etc-and rarely does the guilty party pay the price. The only thing we can do about this situation is to make sure we are never the guilty party.
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Could not knowingly/willfully creating and allowing a safety hazard put the electrician at risk for a criminal offense? Unfortunately, far to often the solution to "nuisance" trips-be they OC or GFCI is to eliminate the safety device-bigger fuse, remove GFCI, cut off ground pin etc-and rarely does the guilty party pay the price. The only thing we can do about this situation is to make sure we are never the guilty party.
Each state (in the U.S.) has its own definition of criminal negligence, and the criteria that make an action criminally negligent. There is almost always a heightened standard (such as willful or reckless) that must be proved. Proving the mental state with admissible evidence in a criminal case is often difficult. Here, if the electrician gave a statement to a government investgator, but was not warned of the possible criminal consequences of making a statement, such a statement might not be admissible in a criminal trial. I don't know if that is the case here or not; I am merely making a reasonably educated guess.
I am not making any value judgments here. The social good of figuring out what happened and why may be more valuable than the social good of punishing (as a criminal act) the negligent actor. Civil liability is a very different story, however. Mark C.
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"The lawsuit says a city electrician told investigators "he knew there was no ground wire as they had not installed the ground", and that "if they had installed the ground wire, every time there was a power surge, it would trip the breaker and all he would get done would be resetting the breaker."
This same mindset can occur on stages where GFCI outlets are removed to prevent random tripping during gigs. Or someone breaks off the ground pin of the power cord on a guitar amp to stop a hum. And I've played on a rain soaked stage in my youth. Time for all of us to get more diligent about proper grounding.
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Yeah, I get RV owners who argue with me that putting their leveling jacks on the "ground" actually "grounds" their RV. That's a bunch of crap... >:(
Somebody (possibly JR) on a DIY electronics forum once said something like "a good coat of paint will stop 300 volts", in reference to wire insulation standards.
Worth noting that racked gear is often not very well grounded through the rack hardware since everything these days is nicely powder-coated.
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Somebody (possibly JR) on a DIY electronics forum once said something like "a good coat of paint will stop 300 volts", in reference to wire insulation standards.
Worth noting that racked gear is often not very well grounded through the rack hardware since everything these days is nicely powder-coated.
That doesn't sound like something I would say.. while perhaps true. Paint or powder coat is an unreliable insulator for human safety, but as I recall it was common to mask off or grind off covering to provide a conductive path. Safety grounds connections sometimes specify lock washers and even things like double nuts to secure a reliable connection.
I was once able to specify an enameled wire as one of the two layers of double insulation inside a special switching power transformer but that was an obscure situation, and an expensive work around to avoid several more months of high temperature testing delaying a new product from export markets.
When in doubt make sure a ground bond is robust, and insulation likewise adequate.
JR
PS: perhaps you were thinking of my expert witness experience regarding electricity jumping across an air gap. While in human safety mains voltage spacing is typically 1/4", which is arguably a generous safety margin, but not crazy.
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"if they had installed the ground wire, every time there was a power surge, it would trip the breaker and all he would get done would be resetting the breaker."
Defeating a safety mechanism (killing the messenger) is not a valid solution to a problem. If there is a problem with a breaker or a GFI tripping, then you need to identify the cause of the tripping and rectify it. If it's because Joe Lead's precious guitar amp has a current leak to ground, that's potentially an unsafe situation* and the amp should not be allowed to be plugged in until the problem is rectified. If Joe Lead is the hottest act in the Top 40, tough beans. When the public is involved, safety should always win over popularity, convenience, money, or arrogance.
That's not to say we should be zero-tolerance zealots. There are many ways things can be built that don't strictly meet the letter of the code, don't have an engineer's stamp, or aren't certified, but are completely safe nonetheless. Common sense must always be present.
*On the other hand, if through thorough testing you can determine that the current leak does not pose any kind of a shock or fire hazard, or you can implement a safe way to connect it, then maybe you'll allow it to be plugged in.
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That's not to say we should be zero-tolerance zealots. There are many ways things can be built that don't strictly meet the letter of the code, don't have an engineer's stamp, or aren't certified, but are completely safe nonetheless. Common sense must always be present.
In my mind, you are probably right. Problem with replacing tried-and-true known safe practices with our common sense is that different folks have different levels of basic common sense. Can we always trust our substitution of judgement? We think so, but then isn't that judgement substitution that caused that little girl's death? Wasn't a problem for x years...
Yeah, I've read on this forum that a show was shut down because some power cables were SJOOW vs SOOW. If all cables were of similar age and maintained well, my common sense would tell me it would be OK to substitute. How about new work metal quad boxes without a kellums as a stringer? We've all used them at one point or another...
No, I don't think any of us want to be zero tolerance zealots, but how does one draw the line?
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Standards and code draws the line.
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Standards and code draws the line.
One of the problems in the USA is that the NFPA 70 (National Electrical Code) isn't universally adopted in all states. It's really more of a stern suggestion than actual law of the land. It's up to each state to decide when (and if) to adopt each new code edition, and if they'll accept all parts of it. For instance, there's a bit of a war going on about requiring AFCI breakers (Arc Flash Circuit Interrupters) in homes. In a number of states, the local code legislators have ignored this code requirement for new home builds using the logic that the $300 additional cost for a $150,000 home build will depress the new home buying market. And many say there are too many random trips and that they really don't prevent fires (as advertized). Now I'm not going to jump into that battle simply because I've not done any personal research on the topic. But that's just ONE of the variations in applied code we all have to deal with. You really don't know how a building is wired in the US until you confirm it yourself.
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Standards and code draws the line.
But standards and codes vary -- and sometimes conflict -- from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Remember also that this is an international forum, and while codes between jurisdiction can vary slightly within the United States, between other countries the variations can be significant. If codes exist at all.
Common sense with an understanding of the fundamentals of electrical safety should rule where codes do not.
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But standards and codes vary -- and sometimes conflict -- from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Remember also that this is an international forum, and while codes between jurisdiction can vary slightly within the United States, between other countries the variations can be significant. If codes exist at all.
Common sense with an understanding of the fundamentals of electrical safety should rule where codes do not.
Look at the photos posted by forum participants from India... if there is any form of regulation there it has no enforcement powers. Not to veer too far off topic, but the same is true of India's chemical and pharmaceutical industries.
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But standards and codes vary -- and sometimes conflict -- from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Remember also that this is an international forum, and while codes between jurisdiction can vary slightly within the United States, between other countries the variations can be significant. If codes exist at all.
Common sense with an understanding of the fundamentals of electrical safety should rule where codes do not.
The level of risk vs. safety that a given society deems acceptable is a matter of culture, accepted practices, and (often) economic forces. Even within the U.S. there is not agreement about what safety precautions are appropriate and "cost effective." The EU has different standards than the US and Canada; that other countries and regions vary is hardly surprising. I have to continually remind myself that my view of "the right thing to do" is not universally shared (or generally accepted from a global perspective). Mark C.
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I try not to to be a "letter of the law" zealot either-but even before the NEC was mandatory in much of the rural area I work in, I still felt it a good practice to follow it. I don't have the time or money to test various methods, or the combined experience that goes behind the issuing of the NEC (admittedly, politics and money come in to play at times-that is unavoidable). If nothing else, I felt like having the code on my side if something happened would help with liability issues. Ask yourself, "Do I have more experience than is present on the code panel responsible for this section?"
As for SJOOW vs SOOW substitution-keep in mind SJOOW is 300 volt rated, SOOW is 600 volt rated-if you are working with 480 VAC systems, substitution would be a big deal.
Mike, I hear the AFCI argument quite often-and don't like the extra cost either. However, as one inspector pointed out to e, the extra cost of granite counter tops (typically much more than a $300 adder for a home) hasn't discouraged their popularity. People have the right to chose where to spend their money on their home, but when we are dealing with the public we have a responsibility to be worthy of their trust that they will be reasonably safe.
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As for SJOOW vs SOOW substitution-keep in mind SJOOW is 300 volt rated, SOOW is 600 volt rated-if you are working with 480 VAC systems, substitution would be a big deal.
Actually it's NEC 520 & 525 that require "extra hard service" cabling when our events are outdoors or in a theater or arena. No "J" in the type designation for us, even if the service voltage is 120/208v.
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Actually it's NEC 520 & 525 that require "extra hard service" cabling when our events are outdoors or in a theater or arena. No "J" in the type designation for us, even if the service voltage is 120/208v.
I believe it also refers to cables that are part of a distributed power system (I.e. not the power cable of a single device), are on the ground, or traffic areas.
The way I decided was if some of the cables must be SOOW, I might as well make all of them the same because for a small operator it doesn't make sense to have more than one type of cable.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
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For instance, there's a bit of a war going on about requiring AFCI breakers (Arc Flash Circuit Interrupters) in homes. In a number of states, the local code legislators have ignored this code requirement for new home builds using the logic that the $300 additional cost for a $150,000 home build will depress the new home buying market. And many say there are too many random trips and that they really don't prevent fires (as advertized).
The debate is certainly one of economics, but there is also a liability factor. If an electrician is wiring a home, he may feel the extra $300 is well worth the additional protection from liability an AFCI allows. Think of it this way: if there is a device that is advertised to promote safety, and an incident occurs that might have been prevented with a safety device that was not installed even though it was known about and readily available, the liability could fall on the person who did not install the device -- in this case, the electrician. Some installers may figure that nuisance tripping is acceptable if it protects them from liability. Others may choose to not install the devices if they feel it will cost them the bid on the job.
Which brings up another point: if AFCI is not required, and $300 makes the difference between getting the bid or not, that is more likely the difference rather than changing the overall price of the home.
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The debate is certainly one of economics, but there is also a liability factor. If an electrician is wiring a home, he may feel the extra $300 is well worth the additional protection from liability an AFCI allows.
It is true that each of us must decide our comfort level for responsibility. AFCI protection is primarily property protection. Grounding, bonding, and GFCI,especially in relation to sound providers is primarily personnel safety. You will find code violations around my home and shop-an environment I have control over (though now with grandkids starting to come that may change-and those violations as well)-but very rarely knowingly in work I do elsewhere.
For me the thought has always been, if the unthinkable happens and I wind up on the stand in a courtroom facing a victim or their family, whether for a criminal or civil trial ,will I be able to feel good about my answers? Do I really want to say, "This way was cheaper and I thought..."? Or, "This way was so much quicker-and it was just for one evening...."? My post asking if the Salina electrician could be criminally charged was not vindictive. Assuming the man is like most of us, I am sure just facing himself in the mirror each morning is a pretty severe punishment. Is that shortcut really worth it? Give him the choice between constantly resetting a breaker and a 12 yr old in a casket and the choice becomes simple.
Common sense rarely takes in to account the wild cards people throw in. Several years ago, I was converting a service panel to a subpanel fed from a new service panel. My 12 yr old son was helping me, I gave him a job common sense said was safe-connecting the grounding electrode conductor to the ground rods. A very safe job-until dad ran a fish tape into the energized line side of the old panel-fed off a very large set of networked transformers about 50 feet away. When the welding stopped because the tape burned in two, he called up to me asking, "Why am I getting sparks off the ground rods?" Dad learned more than one lesson that day-fortunately for only the price of a fish tape.
Perhaps I am too pessimistic and paranoid-but am I paranoid enough? Not an original quote, but true none the less.
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Here's another electrocution lawsuit settlement.
Family Wins Million-Dollar Settlement from Electrocution at College
Mar 21, 2014 | Electrical Construction and Maintenance
The fountain, at South Georgia Technical College, was found to have 17 issues with wiring for the lighting and motor underneath.
The family of a 19-year-old student at a Georgia technical college recently reached a $1.4 million settlement from her electrocution in a campus fountain. Adriana Rhine was shocked in September 2012 when she went in the ground-level fountain to retrieve her 3-year-old son's ball. The settlement was reached in a wrongful death lawsuit against the state.
The fountain, at South Georgia Technical College, was found to have 17 issues with wiring for the lighting and motor under the fountain. According to a report from the LA Times, another student had been shocked a month earlier, but the fountain was only cleaned and refilled.
The Times reported that the settlement, reached in November and approved by a probate court this month, awards the family $1 million for Rhine’s death, the maximum damage claim allowed under the state’s tort laws. Her son receives $400,000 for the emotional distress he suffered as a witness to the death, described as "excruciating and horrific." Rhine had screamed for help, but people who tried to rescue her had to pull back after being shocked themselves. All $1.4 million will be held in a bank-managed trust for the son, the family’s attorney, Yehuda Smolar, told The Times
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I wonder how many near misses there are that never see the light of day? Last week I received a call from a homeowner who was getting shocked by their water hydrant. The first thing I did when I arrived was stick one meter probe in the slightly damp ground and checked the hydrant-Ouch-65 volts!
The hydrant came out of a well pit-a concrete vault roughly 5 ft in diameter and 5 ft deep containing a pressure tank and piping. I went to the panel it was fed from, about 40 feet away on a pole. First thing I noticed was a black wire to the neutral bar with a white wire o the breaker. That was power to the well pit, through a run of 2 wire UF. The panel itself was fed wih 3 wire URD=no EGC, or ground electrodes for that matter. Someone had added a 3 wire receptacle in a handy box in the well pit for a chlorine treatment system to deal with e coli. I will have to check later, I suspect it had a bootleg ground and had energized all of the piping in the pit. Apparently there was no dad in the home, the teenage boy had gone down into the pit (easily qualifying as an OSHA confined space) to check for shorted wires-without knowing where the breaker was, and kept testing to see if it was fixed by touching the hydrant since he did not have a meter. He is still alive. With that kind of luck, perhaps he should be buying lottery tickets!