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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Chris Eddison on May 20, 2014, 03:05:21 PM

Title: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Chris Eddison on May 20, 2014, 03:05:21 PM
I hate doing these "Vs" questions and tend to groan when I see them being posted. However i'm in a bit of a dilemma in that i'm in the market for a pair of powered cabinets, but am not going to be able to listen to all 3 cabinets alongside each other, and the ETX's aren't really readily available to listen to at all yet.

My problem really is that i've been offered the pair of TT22-a's very cheap from a seller who doesn't have the other 2 available to listen to (they're not really an audio company). I could go to one of my other retailers to arrange a shootout but I couldn't do that with a clean conscience knowing that for all their effort in getting the cabinets together, I probably won't end up buying from them.
I'm also all too aware that specs never tell the whole story, so I don't want to pick based on those alone.

I'm replacing an old pair of Mackie cabinets. Normally the TT22-a's would be well out of my price bracket (which is about £800 per cabinet) but this pair are very cheap clearance stock to make way for the newer models. They're more than i'd originally budgeted, but i've always heard great things about these boxes and secretly always wanted a pair! I don't want that to sway my decision though!

I've also heard good things about the DSR's, which seem to be the cheapest of the 3 options. All 3 are comparable in terms of weight, though the RCF is lower powered and has a lower peak SPL (131dB). The DSR and ETX use much higher powered amplifiers, but i'm also all too aware it's not how much you've got but how you use it.

The TT range seem to be a bit of a step up compared to the other ones in terms of the market they're aimed at. There again the DSR and ETX are both at the top of their manufacturers ranges of boxes on sticks.

My work is now mainly theatre. I still do the occasional bit of band work and also some worship. These boxes may also occasionally go out without me to churches and small band gigs (to people that I know, not really dry hire). Powered boxes are still therefore quite useful (though I was tempted by some Nexo PS10's - thoughts Vs these 3 powered boxes?). The ability to fly them is nice, though they'll also end up on sticks. These will make up my main house left and right cabinets, with some Tannoy V12's as delays where needed in larger houses.

I don't want to tie anybody down too much with specific questions, but would ask for some general thoughts on the options i've listed above. Money wise the EV and Yamaha offerings are in a similar ish ballpark. The RCF's are about half again at this offer price (though on paper are significantly more). I'd be willing to take that step up if it was worthwhile. If anybody has heard the EV's then your thoughts would be great, as would those of anybody who's used any or all of the others. Positive and negative comments very gratefully received!!!

Thanks for your time
Chris
Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Mike Pyle on May 20, 2014, 03:44:52 PM
If the TT22As are all original (no replacement drivers or such) and in good working order buy them. They are well worth the price difference you mention.
Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Caleb Dueck on May 20, 2014, 04:33:02 PM
+1 to what Mike said.  Quality throughout, rather than lower grade with lots of EQ.

Typed on a virtual keyboard. 

Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Brandon Wright on May 20, 2014, 04:34:49 PM
I can't speak to the RCF's as I haven't had any experience with them.

I do however have considerable experience with with the DR112. If you choose to go this route I don't think you will be disappointed.  Incredibly flat both in magnitude and phase response, more output than I would ever ask of such a speaker, and excellent driver protection. They have been into the limiter lights for hours on end and have yet to loose a driver out of 20 boxes. There is no comparison in this price range that I have heard or used (K, KW, PRX, ELX, etc....)

I have yet to hear the ETX series, but I will be up in Burnsville in a couple of weeks and will hopefully get to then. I'm sure they will be great if they are utilizing their current driver crop and the processing resembles that of what they are doing in the TG7s on the bigger stuff.
Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Simon Hutson on May 20, 2014, 07:41:38 PM
If the company you mention is based in High Wycombe and Leeds, then they also have some RCF ART 712s in stock. Why not audition these against the TT22 and then decide if they are worth the step up (not quite the same as the DSR or ETX, but in a similar price range). If you do, please let us know what you think.
Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Caleb Dueck on May 20, 2014, 08:01:11 PM
I've compared the Art 722 to TT25a-  no comparison.  Wood box and premium drivers vs plastic and good for the price drivers.

Typed on a virtual keyboard. 

Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Peter Morris on May 20, 2014, 08:10:19 PM
+1 to what Mike said.  Quality throughout, rather than lower grade with lots of EQ.

Typed on a virtual keyboard.

another +1.

We have a bunch of the TT22a’s, and I must say they are excellent.  The RCF ART712’s are a really nice MI product as are the other boxes you mentioned.  The TT22a are a truly profession speaker using RCF’s best components. They have excellent sound quality, go loud, have proper fly points etc etc.  In comparison to the 712 the TT22a’s will have slightly less bass because of the smaller box size, and a flatter more neutral frequency response. The 712 have a slight LF and HF boost which I suspect make them easier to sell in the MI market.   
Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Chris Eddison on May 21, 2014, 04:38:42 AM
That's brilliant. Thanks to all of you for taking the time to respond. It's kind of confirmed my suspicions that the TT's are still the superior cabinets. I'll be taking a listen to them soon (when they get round to returning my emails!) and might take one of my V12's along just to use as a comparison.

I've helped 2 high schools buy powered speakers recently, both opting to go for Yamaha DXR12's, which they all seem happy with. It's this that prompted me to look at the DSR112's.
I've finally found a buyer for my old Mackie SA1521's too. I'll be sad to see them go! Done me a lot of good service over the years and whilst they're not particularly high end, for bands in pubs and clubs I never had any complaints. Just a shame I can't lift them and my work has moved away from regular band work.

Thanks all
Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Mark McFarlane on May 21, 2014, 12:01:37 PM
...Normally the TT22-a's would be well out of my price bracket (which is about £800 per cabinet) but this pair are very cheap clearance stock to make way for the newer models. ...

If you can actually buy TT22A's for £800 per cabinet, buy as many as you can and resell them.  The Google street price in the US is around $3,000/cabinet although you may find a slightly better price from some dealer.  £800 is about $1350, less than half price.


I'd be leery of £800, it sounds a little too good to be true.  Like Mike said, make sure they have the original drivers in them.

I am a very happy TT22A owner.
Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Simon Hutson on May 21, 2014, 12:31:16 PM
If you can actually buy TT22A's for £800 per cabinet, buy as many as you can and resell them.  The Google street price in the US is around $3,000/cabinet although you may find a slightly better price from some dealer.  £800 is about $1350, less than half price.

I think Chris was saying his original budget was £800 per speaker, and that the TT22 on offer are half as much again at £1,200 per speaker (down from their usual price of £2,000).
Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Mike Pyle on May 21, 2014, 03:29:06 PM
...and make sure they are powered. They do sell a passive version.
Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Matt Vivlamore on May 22, 2014, 08:56:48 AM
...and make sure they are powered. They do sell a passive version.

Yea, been there done that when I was trying to set-up a demo.

TT22A are a huge step up from the DSR & ETX. 

TT22A is a pro level box build for touring abuse.  Not much EQ's needed, just a little flavor adding.  PowerCon plugs that you build yourself
DSR & ETX is a light duty box not built to take any long term abuse.  Lots of EQing needed to get a balanced sound.  IEC that you can't build and they tend to slide out over the years.
Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Brandon Wright on May 22, 2014, 09:22:15 AM
DSR & ETX is a light duty box not built to take any long term abuse.  Lots of EQing needed to get a balanced sound.  IEC that you can't build and they tend to slide out over the years.

Can you tell by the pictures how much EQ the ETX will take to get a "balanced" sound, or have you spent a whole bunch of time with the box that has been available for all of a week?
Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Matt Vivlamore on May 22, 2014, 12:35:34 PM
Can you tell by the pictures how much EQ the ETX will take to get a "balanced" sound, or have you spent a whole bunch of time with the box that has been available for all of a week?

They've been out for a little longer than a week, I'd say close to 2 months.  I've heard them a couple times already, they sound like the ELX with a digital amp module.
Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Scott Olewiler on May 22, 2014, 06:08:11 PM
They've been out for a little longer than a week, I'd say close to 2 months.  I've heard them a couple times already, they sound like the ELX with a digital amp module.

Jeez, I hope they sound more than little better than the ELX. They're twice as much!
Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: John Moore on May 22, 2014, 06:13:40 PM
The TT boxes are in a league of their own and can not be compared to the other boxes...with use of B&O or Powersoft type amps and premium drivers, and how the box is voiced...the TT boxes are quite a number of steps above the others , the others are in the MI world....the TT is in the big boy league.
Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Tucker Dragoo on May 22, 2014, 07:51:09 PM
I can't speak to the other boxes mentioned here but if the elx-12 sounds similar to the elx-10 it's a great box. I spent most of yesterday comparing them to our rental stock of sx300, sxa250, vl262, zx3 and a set of tourx12" I understand that these are not in the range of the TT but it will give you a point of reference to boxes you may have heard.
The 10" etx was overall tighter and fuller from about 75hz up to the mid bass snare drum sounded fuller while still leaving room for the vocal to shine (male). The top end sounded like it had a slight rise but didn't have any harshness  associated with some of the other boxes.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Ngọc Khuê on May 23, 2014, 12:44:10 AM
vote RCF TT22
Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Doug Fowler on May 23, 2014, 01:23:49 AM
vote RCF TT22

Read the rules, fix your display name.

Thank for your cooperation.
Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Chris Eddison on May 23, 2014, 05:59:30 PM
Hi everyone

Just a quick thank you for all your help and advice. I've just bought the pair of TT22-a's. Very pleased with the price and really looking forward to listening to them. Sadly I had to make the purchase before hearing them as there was only one pair left on a webshop, and my first opportunity to listen to them would be another week away yet thanks to work. I've heard enough positive stuff here and on other forums to know it's a sensible purchase though.
Thanks again
Chris
Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Mark McFarlane on May 24, 2014, 03:20:49 AM
Congratultions Chris.
Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Chris Eddison on May 24, 2014, 10:32:36 AM
Oooh one final question to those of you who've bought tt22-a's. When they arrived, did they come with powercon leads?
I already have plenty, but every time I buy something new that uses them I add a couple more to my inventory.

I can't decide if I should get the yokes or just fly them from the flying track. When I fly them they're prett much always from a lighting bar, so yokes with clamps might be more sensible. This decision actually affects my cabling choice - I need the cable to reach the bar where I'll have a 16A t-line through connector. Don't want tonnes of excess coiled on the bar. I'll also make up some longer leads to get to the floor when I put them on stands. I guess stand mounting using the yokes (too hat bolted to the yoke cross bar, swung below the cabinet) as I do for my Tannoy V12's might give me a little more flexibility and the possibility of tilting them downwards in difficult rooms.

Any thoughts on yokes Vs steels from flying track gratefully received!
Thanks
Chris
Title: Re: RCF TT22-a Vs Yamaha DSR112 Vs EV ETX-12P
Post by: Peter Morris on May 24, 2014, 11:19:32 AM
Oooh one final question to those of you who've bought tt22-a's. When they arrived, did they come with powercon leads?
I already have plenty, but every time I buy something new that uses them I add a couple more to my inventory.

I can't decide if I should get the yokes or just fly them from the flying track. When I fly them they're prettying always from a lighting bar, so yokes with clamps might be more sensible. This decision actually affects my cabling choice - I need the cable to reach the bar where I'll have a . Don't want tonnes of excess coiled on the bar. I'll also make up some longer leads to get to the floor when I put them on stands. I guess stand mounting using the yokes (too hat bolted to the yoke cross bar, swung below the cabinet) as I do for my Tannoy V12's might give me a little more flexibility and the possibility of tilting them downwards in difficult rooms.

Any thoughts on yokes Vs steels from flying track gratefully received!
Thanks
Chris

FWIW in some situations when height was a problem, I have flown them horizontally using the points on the top and bottom of the box and rotated the horn.

I sure you will love these boxes ...