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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => SR Forum Archives => LAB Subwoofer FUD Forum Archive => Topic started by: efreak on March 17, 2005, 09:41:05 PM

Title: 18" subwoofer sugestions..Currenlty have kilomax
Post by: efreak on March 17, 2005, 09:41:05 PM

hello was wondering if anyone would care to shed some light on a good subwoofer choice. I currently have a front loaded dual 18" reflex box that is loaded with the latest Eminence Kilowmax subs that i built myself. The box is 7 square feet per side tuned around 34hz . I am using a RMX PLX3002 for power. These subs sound good and really rattle the walls when fully cranked, but being the stubborn person that i am, always wanting more, i was wondering if there is some better subs to provde me with even more wall shaking bass. I use my dual sub for mobile DJ use.

I have been hearing alot of talk about the Peavey Low rider subs and was wondering if these subs would be a better choice than the kilomax subs i currenlty have. Also i was looking at the SELENIUM 18SW1P-SLF which looks similar to the low riders.

Any suggestions would be thankfull.

Title: Re: 18" subwoofer sugestions..Currenlty have kilomax
Post by: Branson Sagear on March 17, 2005, 11:24:40 PM

build 4 lab subs, and hire an assistant to help you move them and hand out earplugs  

Title: Re: 18" subwoofer sugestions..Currenlty have kilomax
Post by: Josh Billings on March 21, 2005, 05:31:33 AM

Those Kilomax Subs bump (if you give them enough power and the right enclosure size). The low riders aren't as good in my opinion.

The Labs are awesome i have a pair.

I'd suggest building another dual 18 if you already have 1, unless you want to go a lot bigger then go w/ the labs. These things have insane ammount of output.

-Josh

Title: Re: 18" subwoofer sugestions..Currenlty have kilomax
Post by: efreak on March 21, 2005, 11:01:59 AM

Thanks for the input. Like i said, they do hit hard. You can feel the bass in your chest. I am very happy with the way they came out. I was just curious if some of the others would sound even better. I DJ at mostly small events, therefore another dual 18 would be a little much to transport around.

I think i will give a shot at building a set of punisher horns and see how they compare to my 18" Kilos. I have already complete a Tuba24 with the HL-1OA and did not care for it. Lots of LF but not much punch like my dual reflex 18" i currently have. Being a DJ i need something with lots of punch, so i think the punisher may be a better choice than the Tuba24.

Title: Re: 18" subwoofer sugestions..Currenlty have kilomax
Post by: peter.golde on March 21, 2005, 12:33:48 PM

I will repeat what has been said here a dozen times before, there is no such thing as "punch" with a sub. What you are most likely enjoying is the harmonic distortions from your 18's, but if it sounds good to you, it is good, to you.
A correctly designed horn sub, needs a strong horn midbass, IMHO.
Put the two together, properly powered and aligned and it is like magic. But be cafeful not to explode your chest cavity.

Title: Re: 18" subwoofer sugestions..Currenlty have kilomax
Post by: efreak on March 21, 2005, 06:41:43 PM

Well call it whatever you wish, but all i can tell you is that i have put the Tuba24 and the 18 reflex kilomax side by side both powered by a PLX3002 and the 18 sounds way better. When you stand in front of the 18 you can feel/hear the bass. When i stand in front of the Tuba24 it does nothing for me. Maybe it's just a bad choice of music... I Donno.

Will the punisher horn give me that sound/feel that the 18 provides?? since it's tuned higher than the tuba24. This is not for a live PA, Just a DJ dance stup.

Thanks for the help

Title: Re: 18" subwoofer sugestions..Currenlty have kilomax
Post by: Walt de Jong on March 22, 2005, 04:06:14 AM

A single Punisher driven with 1500W RMS moves some serious air. We had one punisher on the floor with a EV topcabinet stacked on top of it. Stong bass notes moved the entire combination 1 inch back due to the pressure generated by the Punihser. We think 1500W RMS is about optimal for this cabinet. QSC PL-series sounded like a very good match.

A stack of 4 Punishers driven with 6000W makes it difficult to breath when you stand in front of it

Best regards,

Walt

Title: Re: 18" subwoofer sugestions..Currenlty have kilomax
Post by: efreak on March 22, 2005, 06:20:33 AM

Very nice. That is what i am looking for.....Hard to breath I will start with 2 punishers on a PLX3002

Are these plans in cm? Where is the dance music video?

Thanks..

Title: Re: 18" subwoofer sugestions..Currenlty have kilomax
Post by: Jim York on March 22, 2005, 07:17:01 AM

PGolde is right- what you are hearing from your direct radiator 18s is midbass harmonic distortion. A folded horn is going to filter that distortion out, since the geometry of folded horns act as lowpass filters. Your 18s add coloration to the sound and your Tubas don't. Which sounds better is a matter of preference. Chances are slim that another folded horn will give the direct radiator sound that you prefer.

Title: Re: 18" subwoofer suggestions..Currently have kilomax
Post by: peter.golde on March 22, 2005, 08:11:29 AM

Personally, I don't think the Tuba24 is well suited for dance music, it is better for live bands, who don't need the extension, and like the idea of portability. It will match the output of a single high quality 18, with less power required to drive, and less distortion produced. The best you can do from a single horn for dance or DJ, is the Tuba36, because it is designed to be used as a single.
Bass horns couple more efficiently when used in multiples, than DR boxes. The Punisher and the Lab must be used in groups of at least 4 to get the stated response to 40Hz and 30Hz respectively. That is part of their design.
If you like the sound of your Kilomax dual 18 boxes, you might want to stick with them. A single Lab will be about equal, SPL wise, to your dual 18, and based on what you said in earlier posts, I am guessing you would like the sound from the dual 18 better. However put 4 Labs together and it will blow away 8 of your dual 18 boxes in both SPL and LF extension. When you are at this level, your tops will be sorely lacking, and the full potential of the subs wont be realized until you go horn loaded for midbass as well. Listen to a system like this and you will be converted.  

Title: Re: 18" subwoofer suggestions..Currently have kilomax
Post by: efreak on March 22, 2005, 09:20:08 AM

Thanks for the iput guys. I am going to give the punishers a try and see how my ears like them compared to the 18'S. I may even try a Tuba36. Just kinda exploring the different options.

Now if i could only get Walt to make a set of U.S plans for the punishers  

Title: Re: 18" subwoofer suggestions..Currently have kilomax
Post by: Michael Young on March 22, 2005, 09:20:08 AM

I'd have to disagree with Pgolde...the Tuba 24 can be used for Dance music. BUT...to get the sound that efreak wants...he may need to stick with Double 18" cabs.
It sounds like he likes the "punchy" sound that all reflex loaded drivers produce due to their abundance of midbass hamonics.
I personally have Mixed two different types of subs together in my DJ/Dance system, one quasi-reflex cab and one horn loaded cab per side.
It was difficult to do, and requires a digital processing crossover/speaker management system (i own a Rane RPM26z)
BUT it gives me the combination of low freqency extension and "punch" that i've always wanted, with boxes that one person can load alone.
The cabs are the yorkville ls608s and the tuba24, by the way.

Title: Re: 18" subwoofer suggestions..Currently have kilomax
Post by: peter.golde on March 22, 2005, 11:50:42 AM

Good work Michael

Title: Re: 18" subwoofer suggestions..Currently have kilomax
Post by: Tim Padrick on March 26, 2005, 12:33:30 AM

http://www.bhivemotor.com/

Title: Another issue
Post by: Michael_Elliston¶ on March 26, 2005, 10:01:50 PM

18" kilomax

Qes too high for good bass reflex operation.
Low tune required,which is bad reducing midbass power handling and increasing distortion when tuned below Fs

Your current enclosure peaks at 60hz[near kick drum fundamental]and will exhibit significant resonance ringing.Perhaps some parametric EQ could flatten it abit.
Interestingly a BP4 for boom might work.

The hard dance kick sound is possible through basshorns.Harmonic distortion is an order of magnitude lower than typical bass reflex 18"s.

http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=newdriver

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/sbk1/ssi.htm

http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/pages/products02/ speakpro/kilo18.htm

Cheers!