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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Thomas Le on January 22, 2014, 05:52:57 PM
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http://qscmarketing.com/touchmix (http://qscmarketing.com/touchmix)
Why a small touchscreen? There's going to be alot of scrolling...
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http://qscmarketing.com/touchmix (http://qscmarketing.com/touchmix)
Why a small touchscreen? There's going to be alot of scrolling...
They say that you can use both touch screen and mobile device at the same time. Cool would be 1-8 on a iPad and 9-16 on the desk :-) . Time will tell.
Douglas R.Allen
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http://qscmarketing.com/touchmix (http://qscmarketing.com/touchmix)
Why a small touchscreen? There's going to be alot of scrolling...
The new standard for breakout rooms? I'll have info on them ASAP from my rep. Could have used one this week for my show.
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very interesting - can't wait to hear more from NAMM as well as the MSRP. If it's around $1500, this is the mixer Line 6 should have made...
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Hmm, IMO: meh
What I'd change:
- Move inputs to back/rear
- Recallable HA (for more screen)
- Do away with +48v button, make it individual with channels. Make the Standby button a physical power switch.
- Move Home, Menu, Play/Rec to bottom of dial (for more screen)
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very interesting - can't wait to hear more from NAMM as well as the MSRP. If it's around $1500, this is the mixer Line 6 should have made...
I think $1500 would be too high.... An x32 Rack can be had for that much. Anyway I hope it comes in around $800-1k but that's probably wishful thinking.
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One of the reasons I like my Presonus 16.0.2 is the midi foot switch to mute effects between songs. Can't see it on this one
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I cannot access the provided link due to the firewall on my network, but based on the comments in this thread I suspect the article doesn't provide a lot of info. The TouchMix-8 is expected to street for around $899.00 and the TM-16 for $1299.00 USD. Availability is mid-2014.
References:
http://www.churchproduction.com/story/main/first-impression-qsc-touchmix-compact-digital-mixers/2
http://www.churchproduction.com/story/main/qsc-audio-enters-the-compact-digital-mixer-market-with-new-touchmix-series
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http://qscmarketing.com/touchmix (http://qscmarketing.com/touchmix)
Why a small touchscreen? There's going to be alot of scrolling...
That's ridiculous. The weight of the xlrs/snake into the top will haul it off the mix table. Id guess surface mount connectors, so any stress will crack the pcb. Not rack mountable. And who can read that tiny screen? I dont get it.... and wont.
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Very good for bands that mix themselves, I'd say. Maybe DJs.
Not for me, though. I don't think I'd be comfortable either about having sixteen cables hanging off the top of my mixer. If it ran a digital snake, though, I'd be interested.
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At least as interesting as the Mackie offering.
Marketing blurb sounds promising. For my situation, that simple mode puts it in the running for our little cafe.
More details, please.
frank
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Very good for bands that mix themselves, I'd say. Maybe DJs.
Just from a quick glance the TouchMix-8 "might" work for tying everything together at my DJ gigs. I only need a couple of mic channels (wired & wireless) and two stereo channels for my two MacBook Pros running Traktor. Not really digging the 1/4" TRS stereo channels as my controllers/sound cards have split left & right but need to do more investigating. My 2006 Mackie Onyx 1220 works fine for now, though.
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- Do away with +48v button, make it individual with channels. Make the Standby button a physical power switch.
Website says "Channel-selectable phantom power"
Which of course doesn't mean it has it, but it might.
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That's ridiculous. The weight of the xlrs/snake into the top will haul it off the mix table. Id guess surface mount connectors, so any stress will crack the pcb. Not rack mountable. And who can read that tiny screen? I dont get it.... and wont.
Yup.
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That's ridiculous. The weight of the xlrs/snake into the top will haul it off the mix table. Id guess surface mount connectors, so any stress will crack the pcb. Not rack mountable. And who can read that tiny screen? I dont get it.... and wont.
My Mackie DL1608 hasn't been pulled off the table yet. Nor has its PCB cracked. I don't plug a 48 channel snake into a 16 channel board.
This screen looks to be about the size of an iPad Mini, which is what I use to mix off the Mackie and off my LS9. These 55 year old eyes don't have any problem with it. I have no idea if I'll get one. I'm damned sure going to take a look at one before I decide, though. Nice to have a reputable option in that niche.
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No recallable preamps = fail. You'd think with all the bitching about Presonous lack of motorized faders and the Mackie DL's lack of recallable pre's that they wouldn't have made that mistake of not having fully automated channel strips. I realize it's an additional expense, but it's the wrong move. Folks would be willing to pay a bit more get that functionality I would think. I know I would. I'd rather spend more and get the right thing than buy this. I suspect others will feel the same. I could be wrong but I don't think so.
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At least as interesting as the Mackie offering.
Marketing blurb sounds promising. For my situation, that simple mode puts it in the running for our little cafe.
More details, please.
frank
QSC put out a YouTube video today. It can also be used remotely with an iPad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02BgtqrNb_c
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At first it seemed interesting, but then I noticed the proprietary power connector in the unit. It's bad enough that they didn't take the effort to build in the power supply, and you've got to deal with a wall wart, but then on top of that, it's completely unique, so no chance of finding a replacement laying around.
That immediately is a deal breaker, especially for a device that's designed to be used out in the open and not buried inside a rack.
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disliked it before you pointed out the power cord, but after noticing that YUCK. I hope this is a joke and their real digi mixer comes out soon.
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I'm personally not interested in this, but I'm sure it will have its uses.
It does however point to the future. A much larger touchscreen surface instead of actual moving controls is, I think, the way forward.
Steve.
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Anyone seen a price?
Douglas R. Allen
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Anyone seen a price?
Douglas R. Allen
I have tentative map but not sure if I can say until pricing is officially announced. I don't have dealer costs yet.
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No recallable preamps = fail. You'd think with all the bitching about Presonous lack of motorized faders and the Mackie DL's lack of recallable pre's that they wouldn't have made that mistake of not having fully automated channel strips. I realize it's an additional expense, but it's the wrong move. Folks would be willing to pay a bit more get that functionality I would think. I know I would. I'd rather spend more and get the right thing than buy this. I suspect others will feel the same. I could be wrong but I don't think so.
Actually Greg because there are no mechanical faders recall should have been the first thought in the design of the board. Also, there's so little actual hardware involved this board shouldn't go for much more than a cheap PC, maybe $500 street. If that were the case it would be worth the money for those small I don't care type of jobs. Other than that I wouldn't have a use for it at all.
I also agree with the cables pulling this thing off a table, or breaking something along the way.
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Would be interesting to have more info. Some of the pictures on http://qsc.com/products/Mixers/Touchmix_Series/TouchMix-16/ (http://qsc.com/products/Mixers/Touchmix_Series/TouchMix-16/) even seem to show the smaller mixer screens or earlier software so I don't trust that info and a lot of details on the operation are not clear, for example are the aux sends fixed or selectable not just pre/post fader but also pre/post processing? I did note that there is apparently no delay available on the inputs or outputs, so forget using the mixer to align to backline or to align mains and subs or anything like that. And the mixer and channel presets seem limited to simple save and recall of all related settings, which may be fine for many of the intended users.
According to the currently posted specifications, the display is 6.1"x3.5", so a 7" diagonal touchscreen, smaller than a 9.7" diagonal iPad screen so it will be interesting to see how usable it actually is or how that affects the user interface.
With most or all of the inputs and outputs used I do see it getting top/back heavy but that seems applicable to all of the new small format digital mixers.
With the apparently non-recallable preamps pricing will probably need to be competitive with the Mackie DL (but with the caveat that you don't need to also account for the cost of an i-Pad as you do with the Mackie) or the StudioLive 16.0.2 or maybe 16.4.2. I'm sure that being able to have a system consisting of a QSC mixer along with QSC powered speakers will be a big selling point just as it is now with PreSonus and has been to a lesser degree with Mackie.
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http://qscmarketing.com/touchmix (http://qscmarketing.com/touchmix)
Why a small touchscreen? There's going to be alot of scrolling...
If they make the touch screen much larger, you might as well just bring a "regular" mixer. Why work off a screen you can hardly see with missing features?
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Think of the small screen as the Mackie but usable without an iPad, and better with. You could mix on it in a pinch, but they're betting that since just about everyone on the planet owns an iPad (with another 25 million sold last quarter) you'll have a larger surface or 2 surfaces - use the iPad for faders and the QSC for EQ/dynamics, etc.
Definitely won't be for a lot of the people here, but I can see them selling a ton of these at the prices mentioned, given how well the Mackie iPad mixer is selling. With buttons like "Simple" and "Wizard," QSC knows who their target market is - and for this item it's definitely not people with 16, 24 or 48 channel snakes... I like the fact that they knew their target market, built features that would appeal to them, left out others, and priced it accordingly. They'll sell a shitload. If I were Presonus, I'd be even more nervous, with this now at the lower end and the QU-16 at the comparable price.
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The TouchMix-8 is expected to street for around $899.00 and the TM-16 for $1299.00 USD.
...for those who can't be bothered to read a 3 page thread.
I see it as a big step up from the Mackie, which is already a suprisingly functional piece of kit. XLR outputs, additional line ins, talkback, multitrack recording, (possibly) individual phantom, from a company with killer support. Granted, I'd love to see recallable head amps, but at least these are arranged the same as the input jacks. Mackie got an awful lot of the details wrong. I'm betting QSC's won't have a pin 1 problem, either. Mackie's does.
"The snake will pull the mixer off the table" is a ridiculous argument. No more true of this than of any small mixer made in the last 30 years.
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Thing is this thing probably weighs about 5 lbs! 16+ snake cables and the associated gravitational pull will probably tip it up in end.
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QSC didn't design this for folks with 16+ snake cables. There are also such things as strain reliefs...
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Thing is this thing probably weighs about 5 lbs! 16+ snake cables and the associated gravitational pull will probably tip it up in end.
I don't know about you, but I don't generally let my snakes dangle from their XLRs.
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It will have a hard time competing with this:
http://www.behringer.com/EN/products/X18.aspx
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Think of the small screen as the Mackie but usable without an iPad, and better with. You could mix on it in a pinch, but they're betting that since just about everyone on the planet owns an iPad (with another 25 million sold last quarter) you'll have a larger surface or 2 surfaces - use the iPad for faders and the QSC for EQ/dynamics, etc.
7" diagonal versus 9.7" diagonal touchscreen and I know plenty of people who do not and have no care to own an iPad. Not to mention that if you have to have the mixer and a separate iPad at FOH then the compact size factor goes down significantly while the risk of a lost, damaged or stolen iPad goes way up in many possible applications. We'll have to wait and see all the screens on the actual unit to know how well the user interface works with just the 7" touchscreen.
Definitely won't be for a lot of the people here, but I can see them selling a ton of these at the prices mentioned, given how well the Mackie iPad mixer is selling. With buttons like "Simple" and "Wizard," QSC knows who their target market is - and for this item it's definitely not people with 16, 24 or 48 channel snakes... I like the fact that they knew their target market, built features that would appeal to them, left out others, and priced it accordingly. They'll sell a shitload. If I were Presonus, I'd be even more nervous, with this now at the lower end and the QU-16 at the comparable price.
With 16 mic/line inputs, 2 stereo inputs, 6 mono aux outputs, 2 stereo aux outputs and stereo main outputs I'm not sure why the TouchMix-16 would not commonly be used with a 16x8 or even up to a 20x12 snake regardless of the technical expertise of the user.
My concern is that I see the price, focus on less technical users, etc. making the TouchMix very attractive to many churches, community theatres, schools, etc. where the people involved in the purchasing decisions may not be that technical or understand the compromises and tradeoffs that may be relevant to those applications. It also seems odd that a device aimed at less technical users does not appear to have direct access from the front panel or main screens to scene recall and save, I can see recalling a saved base scene being the first step for many applications.
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7" diagonal versus 9.7" diagonal touchscreen and I know plenty of people who do not and have no care to own an iPad. Not to mention that if you have to have the mixer and a separate iPad at FOH then the compact size factor goes down significantly while the risk of a lost, damaged or stolen iPad goes way up in many possible applications. We'll have to wait and see all the screens on the actual unit to know how well the user interface works with just the 7" touchscreen.
regardless of your thoughts, the iPad is the dominant player in the category and makes the most sense to develop for given the user numbers.
With 16 mic/line inputs, 2 stereo inputs, 6 mono aux outputs, 2 stereo aux outputs and stereo main outputs I'm not sure why the TouchMix-16 would not commonly be used with a 16x8 or even up to a 20x12 snake regardless of the technical expertise of the user.
My point was more that the concern of a 16+ channel snake and top mounts are valid, but not a concern for QSC as the market they're going after with this mixer generally don't own or think of buying a multi channel snake. They'll have a bunch of XLR cables, etc. Nothing wrong with using it with a snake and will work fine, but the consumer QSC designed this for doesn't own a snake, unless it's a Hosa 1/4" patch snake...
My concern is that I see the price, focus on less technical users, etc. making the TouchMix very attractive to many churches, community theatres, schools, etc. where the people involved in the purchasing decisions may not be that technical or understand the compromises and tradeoffs that may be relevant to those applications. It also seems odd that a device aimed at less technical users does not appear to have direct access from the front panel or main screens to scene recall and save, I can see recalling a saved base scene being the first step for many applications.
This will be an upgrade to people who have analog Mackie, Yamaha, or Behringer mixers; given that the target consumer doesn't know enough to know they may like/need direct access or scene recall/save, it's not really an issue. It's an issue for you because you're at a level far above this mixer and would want more advanced technical features. The majority of people who will buy this won't want those and aren't willing to pay more for them.
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I did note that there is apparently no delay available on the inputs or outputs, so forget using the mixer to align to backline or to align mains and subs or anything like that.
Delay is available on the outputs, but no details given.
According to the currently posted specifications, the display is 6.1"x3.5", so a 7" diagonal touchscreen, smaller than a 9.7" diagonal iPad screen so it will be interesting to see how usable it actually is or how that affects the user interface.
Agreed. This has become even more important to me as my eyesight is degrading and I seem to misplace my reading glasses every chance I get. ::) Using the iPad with the DL1608 is fine as long as I'm wearing my reading glasses. A few features in the Mackie GUI were on the small side. I just hope the TM-16 interface is well designed.
With most or all of the inputs and outputs used I do see it getting top/back heavy but that seems applicable to all of the new small format digital mixers.
I tried to get a rough idea of the size of the QSC TM-16 based on the size of the DL-1608 and the number of inputs across the top as a reference. TM-16 appears to be a little wider, not as deep, and about the same height at its tallest point. Anyone come across dimensions & weight? I haven't experienced any stability issues with the DL-1608 (7.9 lbs), but we typically use 10 inputs, 3 auxes and the main outs.
With the apparently non-recallable preamps pricing will probably need to be competitive with the Mackie DL (but with the caveat that you don't need to also account for the cost of an i-Pad as you do with the Mackie)...
The DL-1608 can be had by the consumer for $800 out the door and a used iPad for ~$250. So for less than $1100 you're up and running. Keep in mind the Mackie in its current incarnation is bare-bones in terms of features. Wifi capability is an additional cost. The QSC has significantly more features.
If the estimated $1299 street price for the TM-16 is accurate, assuming that's Guitar Center pricing, then many of us will wait on the Behringer x18 to see how it compares. I'm confident the x18 will be feature packed, at least as much as the TM-16, and will guess it'll be priced slightly less than the DL-1608.
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Thing is this thing probably weighs about 5 lbs! 16+ snake cables and the associated gravitational pull will probably tip it up in end.
My thought exactly. This little mixer will need to be velcroed to a table.
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regardless of your thoughts, the iPad is the dominant player in the category and makes the most sense to develop for given the user numbers.
I think not being tied to a particular third party device is a big plus for the TouchMix. If you offer a mixer that requires an iPad to operate, not just as an optional accessory, then at least offer the option of the mixer packaged with iPad and warrantied as a system otherwise you aren't even offering a functional product. But I think the issue here is how usable the integrated 7" diagonal touchscreen of the TouchMix will be or if many will end up also using an iPad to supplement it at FoH.
My point was more that the concern of a 16+ channel snake and top mounts are valid, but not a concern for QSC as the market they're going after with this mixer generally don't own or think of buying a multi channel snake. They'll have a bunch of XLR cables, etc. Nothing wrong with using it with a snake and will work fine, but the consumer QSC designed this for doesn't own a snake, unless it's a Hosa 1/4" patch snake...
I'd have the same concern with that many individual cables as with a snake. Lots of cables hooked to the back panel and rear to panel of a compact, lightweight mixer just seems to beg for the mixer ending up on the floor.
This will be an upgrade to people who have analog Mackie, Yamaha, or Behringer mixers; given that the target consumer doesn't know enough to know they may like/need direct access or scene recall/save, it's not really an issue. It's an issue for you because you're at a level far above this mixer and would want more advanced technical features. The majority of people who will buy this won't want those and aren't willing to pay more for them.
I have to disagree and take the view that they may think they are getting things they are not. Being able to hit a single scene recall button to recall a typical service or event is often seen as a major reason for churches, schools, etc. moving to a digital mixer. If they have to go through multiple pages or use unmarked buttons to do that then that advantage can be significantly diminished, but that being the case may not be apparent to the people involved in such applications. Similar with the non-recallable preamps, many of the users and purchasers in those applications may not understand whether the channel and scene recall incorporates the preamp gain and that they might still have to adjust those manually. Whether they want such functionality or not or find it of sufficient value or not is one thing, knowing what they are actually getting and having it clearly presented rather than having to do a technical assessment to separate the reality from the perception and marketing is another especially with the potential market involved with this type of product. Or put another way, it's one thing to decide something is not worth it and another to not even realize you aren't getting it.
Delay is available on the outputs, but no details given.
The features tab on http://www.qscaudio.com/products/Mixers/Touchmix_Series/TouchMix-16/ (http://www.qscaudio.com/products/Mixers/Touchmix_Series/TouchMix-16/) mentions output delay but delay is not included in the "Output Channel Processing" listed under the Specifications tab on the same page, so maybe it is included, maybe not.
Things like this and the touchscreen shown in the first picture on that same page showing no access to Inputs 9-16 really make me feel that this is more a concept being announced than a final product. Give me a single line diagram, images of all touchscreens and maybe even a preliminary manual and I'd feel a lot more like it was a real product.
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I have to disagree and take the view that they may think they are getting things they are not. Being able to hit a single scene recall button to recall a typical service or event is often seen as a major reason for churches, schools, etc. moving to a digital mixer. If they have to go through multiple pages or use unmarked buttons to do that then that advantage can be significantly diminished, but that being the case may not be apparent to the people involved in such applications. Similar with the non-recallable preamps, many of the users and purchasers in those applications may not understand whether the channel and scene recall incorporates the preamp gain and that they might still have to adjust those manually.
From the preliminary spec sheet:
"The TouchMix also comes with a comprehensive library of complete Mixer Scenes to get you started. User scenes may be stored or recalled from either internal or USB memory and at the user’s option, scenes may include or omit main and auxiliary mix levels."
Not a complete answer to questions asked previously, but gives some clue. We'll have to see what the screen interface actually looks like...
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** Too expensive compared to the competition (DL1608 and x18)
** No recallable gains? Really?
** Goofy power connector?
If only the DL1608 were to be considered as competition, it would have some significant advantages:
- Record multi-track directly to an external HD
- DCA's
- Mute Groups
- 4 efx engines
Unfortunately, the x18 has all these and more..... and is less expensive.
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Unfortunately, the x18 has all these and more..... and is less expensive.
Seen numbers yet? Or a shipping date?
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I just saw the mixer at NAMM. Sweet! Street price under a grand! It has all the features that the targeted market needs. I won't be buying one but lot's of people will!
The usual suspects here seem to be as full of crap as they usually are!
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This seems like the way digital consoles will finally move out small analog mixers($800 and below). I personally, am excited about this format digital mixer from a retailer stand point.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Seen numbers yet? Or a shipping date?
According to Behringer rep at NAMM, MAP will be $799. Didn't see anything about shipping date.
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I played with this mixer at NAMM today. It's very intuitive for a digital mixer. Nothing is more than two menus deep. Many selections allow you to limit the parameters to "simple" settings that give you only the basic. This mixer appears to be all about basics and fundamentals, but has enough power to be a great little mixer. I felt pretty comfortable with it after about 5 minutes. I think once it hits the market (mid 2014) it will sell very well.
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I don't know about you, but I don't generally let my snakes dangle from their XLRs.
My snakes are in a doghouse but this isn't going to be in a flight case.
i can see it sitting on a bar table and IF the strain relief gets unhooked from where ever it might be a bit unstable....I could be wrong.
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As someone who owns and likes his DL1608 let me say that this is an obvious and IMHO very successful attempt at stealing that market. You can't compare this to mixers that cost twice as much in order to bash it and be taken seriously. Not everyone can afford a $3000 ditgital mixer.
First, no need to set up a router, no need to buy an iPad, but i would any way. Extra line inputs means 16 channels are actually 16 channels. $1299 plus 1 iPad =more functionality than the 1608 plus2 ipads and still cheaper.
It appears to have scene recall. Still haven't read all the literature yet but if aux sends can be pre or post fade and outputs have delay I'm selling my 1608 and buying one of these. End of story.
*Maybe - I see the x18 has programmable pre-amps. Biggest issue I have with 1608 is having to walk back to mixer to adjust pre-amps. Touch mix has same drawback.
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It seems to me Line6 M20d is still better than this one, but at a higher price. And has dgital controllable preamps, which makes for a true full recall setup, doesn't need to manually set them..
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I think it's obvious that QSC missed the mark on this one. It is two years too late and They are not bending any rules. The only thing that seems cool is that you can direct to disk record multitracks without software. But then again Line 6 can do that with an SD-card. The built in IEM thing they mention seems like a moot point. They can all do that....... The only thing this has that others don't, is 10 auxiliary outs ( which is really more like 8 aux outs if you think about it ). The Behringer X18 ( when it comes out???? ) will also have the wireless connectivity built in. Like many things QSC, I'm sure it won't be at the most affordable price. Not that it's a bad thing, but when your competing directly against Mackie, Behringer and Line 6 ( which is a bit over priced for some reason ), you are in for a challenge. The Touchmix is just not impressive in any way; at least not in terms of performance over other similar devices.
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I think it's obvious that QSC missed the mark on this one. It is two years too late and They are not bending any rules. The only thing that seems cool is that you can direct to disk record multitracks without software. But then again Line 6 can do that with an SD-card. The built in IEM thing they mention seems like a moot point. They can all do that....... The only thing this has that others don't, is 10 auxiliary outs ( which is really more like 8 aux outs if you think about it ). The Behringer X18 ( when it comes out???? ) will also have the wireless connectivity built in. Like many things QSC, I'm sure it won't be at the most affordable price. Not that it's a bad thing, but when your competing directly against Mackie, Behringer and Line 6 ( which is a bit over priced for some reason ), you are in for a challenge. The Touchmix is just not impressive in any way; at least not in terms of performance over other similar devices.
The things I'm attracted to are the form factor, the price and the attractiveness/simplicity of (what I've seen of) the screen interface. What other 16ch digital mixers can give me this feature set in that small of a footprint? And at $1299 I can sell my 2yo Presonus on Craigslist and get spend almost nothing out of pocket. (Not to mention the old Firewire laptop I have to keep running to run VSL and get iPad support.) I watched some demos of the Line6 on YouTube and the interface didn't impress me. I plan to give it a try, and it seems premature to say it's obviously missed the mark even before it hits the stores...
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I think it's obvious that QSC missed the mark on this one. It is two years too late and They are not bending any rules. The only thing that seems cool is that you can direct to disk record multitracks without software. But then again Line 6 can do that with an SD-card. The built in IEM thing they mention seems like a moot point. They can all do that....... The only thing this has that others don't, is 10 auxiliary outs ( which is really more like 8 aux outs if you think about it ). The Behringer X18 ( when it comes out???? ) will also have the wireless connectivity built in. Like many things QSC, I'm sure it won't be at the most affordable price. Not that it's a bad thing, but when your competing directly against Mackie, Behringer and Line 6 ( which is a bit over priced for some reason ), you are in for a challenge. The Touchmix is just not impressive in any way; at least not in terms of performance over other similar devices.
Wow! I could not disagree more! How much time have you spent using the QSC mixer before making such a harsh judgement?
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Wow! I could not disagree more! How much time have you spent using the QSC mixer before making such a harsh judgement?
The same amount of time as he has spent mixing on the X18.
The built in IEM thing they mention seems like a moot point. They can all do that.
Hogwash. Show me another mixer where you can set up one independent headphone mix without burning auxes from the back, let alone two mixes.
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About the same amount of time either of you have spent to defend the QSC.......... Except I have used all the other Mixers that are mentioned and in direct competition to the QSC.
Every mixer you have ever used can provide a dedicated IEM mix. The QSC has 10 auxiliary mixes ( 8 if you use stereo cans ) and that's it. If your mixer has 20 aux's you can have 20 mono IEM's, or 10 stereo. I don't care if it's considered part of the Buss count or not. I am not going to spec a mixer that doesn't have what I need plus room for a little more. So the dedicated IEM out's is moot because I can still use them ( or all the others for that matter ) for any form of mix I desire.
So instead of bashing my opinion you could have actually produced viable and useful information that shows the weakness in my argument? The QSC mixer is " NOT BENDING ANY RULES " that sets them apart from others and is behind the curve if they are shooting to put the other vendors on the shelf. There are some cool features and it is a very usable mixer in every way I'm sure. I never said it was a crappy mixer, or a P.O.S. I said in a nutshell that it is not a game changing piece of innovation. It will be priced above other mixers that do basically what it does and below others that do the same thing. It does a couple things that the others won't, but at a cost, to which some may not find affordable considering other vendors have units at that price that will do more......
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you could have actually produced viable and useful information that shows the weakness in my argument?
No, actually, I couldn't. Neither the Behringer nor the QSC exist yet. They won't for at least six months, and nobody knows what the feature set will be, so debating those feature sets is kind of silly. That was my primary point. The Behringer has been in process for a couple of years, and it looks like they've started over more than once.
As for IEMs, I've never seen a mixer with two independently addressable headphone amps built in. I think it's interesting. All XLR outputs is interesting, as well. Most everyone else is doing at least some 1/4". Nobody else's mixer says QSC on it, either. For me, that's also a very good feature. I've been dealing with their support for many many years, and it's always been excellent.
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I used the X18 as example for units that are comparable in terms of features. The vaporware side of things apart, it is still something to chew on. Based on what you say, you should have had no reason to care about my opinion and make any comment on it at all?
I could be wrong entirely? The QSC could end up being the best thing since sliced bread? In this case I highly doubt it though...... QSC makes great products, but are generally more expensive than other similar products that are just as good. This isn't a slam on QSC. They currently have one of the best warranty programs and rarely fail. I have seen many fail though, so they are not immune to it. Currently however there is a series of different units that are priced at the same point as the QSC Touchmix ( speculated street price ) that exceed what the QSC is slated to do. The built in headphone amps may be cool, but seems to be a feature only usable for a band member sitting right next to the mixer? Conversely how would that effect it's use to actually utilize the outputs for driving a power amp or other outboard gear? The mostly XLR output is cool, but not the game changer either. There is no real caveat to having a TRS connection. They do save space and allow for more connections in a smaller space and most amps at the level this mixer is priced in will also have a TRS input. Sonically they are the same; it's just not an XLR.
I'm not a brand fanboy and like different brands for different reasons. I will not buy a product and spend the extra money on it simply because it says XXX on the side. If that is the motivation for product purchase, then I am in the wrong field. Of course I look at things from a business aspect too. The ROI is a large part and providing the needed tools for the client base I desire is paramount. I don't care what it says on the side, it has to make money and fullfil the needs. The price difference of even a couple hundred bucks can be the difference between another year before an ROI? The longer you take to get an ROI, the larger your chance of never getting it there is. Murphy's law...... Two months after the warranty ends and two months before you pay the thing off it breaks........ Shunning a product simply because it says XXX on the side is denying the possibility to offer a more competitive product at a more competitive price.
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Seen numbers yet? Or a shipping date?
Dan,
Features and price, yes, shipping date ..... not so much.
I would be willing to bet that the QSC Touchmix ships before the X18 (as much as 8 months before). Behringer have a long and honored tradition of showing products off at NAMM that are not realized until the next NAMM ..... and sometimes even longer.
Still, the X18 will eventually be released, and will have recallable head amps, Android support, iPad support, and PC support from the X32 infrastructure already in place..... and it will cost less than the QSC. That will be some stiff competition IMHO (when it arrives).
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About the same amount of time either of you have spent to defend the QSC.......... Except I have used all the other Mixers that are mentioned and in direct competition to the QSC.
Every mixer you have ever used can provide a dedicated IEM mix. The QSC has 10 auxiliary mixes ( 8 if you use stereo cans ) and that's it. If your mixer has 20 aux's you can have 20 mono IEM's, or 10 stereo. I don't care if it's considered part of the Buss count or not. I am not going to spec a mixer that doesn't have what I need plus room for a little more. So the dedicated IEM out's is moot because I can still use them ( or all the others for that matter ) for any form of mix I desire.
I don't think you and your uses are the intended market for this mixer. In fact, I don't think most of us are who this is aimed at.
As for comparing different odors of vaporware, I'll leave that to others.
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I don't think you and your uses are the intended market for this mixer. In fact, I don't think most of us are who this is aimed at.
Yeah, there seem to be people here who are more interested in marketing than live sound.
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As for comparing different odors of vaporware, I'll leave that to others.
I think if you haven't been a product development manager in an audio field, you should limit your comments to features YOU may or may not want, and leave the comments about market position to those paid to do that, or have previously experience making those decisions.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
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I agree with Tim.
I think if you haven't been a product development manager in an audio field, you should limit your comments to features YOU may or may not want, and leave the comments about market position to those paid to do that, or have previously experience making those decisions.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
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Even then a professional "informed" opinion is still an opinion. I have seen my share of professional guessing miss wildly both high and low, while not at the same time. 8)
This seems like good sport, just do not get too invested in your personal guesses. Unless it is your money on the line developing these products it's just mental masturbation, and kibitzing.
JR
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Unless it is your money on the line developing these products it's just mental masturbation, and kibitzing.
JR
Can you go blind from that? If so, there would be a lot of visually
impaired people here!
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Sweetwater uploaded a video showcasing the Touchmix features. Looks VERY easy to use!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPcs5Q2f6Kk
Shave off $300 and maybe I would consider it...
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instead of starting a new topic...
Anyone get their hands on one?
Pros & Cons...
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working with a DJ that has one, weekend 10/25. Bringing in my ipad to connect.
Wedding with 3 to 5 wireless mics. The con I am seeing is the provided wifi plug has a 50 ft range.
Would also like to see what security is setup on wifi to prevent a hijack.
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I used some for a bunch of corporate break out rooms. My thoughts are here http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,151651.0.html
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I was about to purchase one, but then noticed the Mackie DL1608 price dropped $100. I don't know if the drop was in response to the release of the TouchMix and/or Behringer's announcement of the new X-Air line of small format digital boards, but figured I'd exercise a little patience to see what happens to pricing. I'm in no hurry.
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I ended up buying a TouchMix 16. I did look at the DL1608. My primary function for this mixer is Wedding Ceremonies and Cocktail-Trio's bands.
Here are some of my thoughts: While the initial price of the DL1608 is cheaper, I would have needed to source another iPad to operate the mixer. My current iPad is 'tied' to the LS9 because I have to mix on the side of the stage. If I wanted to keep the iPad loose, I would have need to buy a router. Also the TouchMix comes with a decent carry bag/case; Mackie was additional. With seeing those differences, I choose the TouchMix 16 due to its "all in one" set-up. I am not saying the Mackie is a bad little console, I just wanted something with less things that I needed to remember when running around the venue (usually a Hotel) and setting up 2-3 PA systems.
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I wonder how terrible all if these tiny mixers will be with the incredibly bad Wifi issues of ios8. 8.0.2 has not fixed the issues of losing connection.
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I wonder how terrible all if these tiny mixers will be with the incredibly bad Wifi issues of ios8. 8.0.2 has not fixed the issues of losing connection.
I keep hearing about all these connectivity issues. What routers/APs are you guys using?
I've been running a cheap ass $40.00 Belkin home wireless router/AP for over a year every weekend and have never lost my iPad connection to my board during soundcheck or performance with any iOS update,including 8.0.2. Have read similar statements by others on this board. My only conclusion is it's the routers you're using.
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I keep hearing about all these connectivity issues. What routers/APs are you guys using?
I've been running a cheap ass $40.00 Belkin home wireless router/AP for over a year every weekend and have never lost my iPad connection to my board during soundcheck or performance with any iOS update,including 8.0.2. Have read similar statements by others on this board. My only conclusion is it's the routers you're using.
I use two different Airport Expresses, an HTC phone using portable wifi hotspot and a Lnksys. It loses connection with all of the! Apple screwed the pooch on this update, BAD!
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I have finally rid myself of the connection issue gremlins! Since ios7 I have no longer had the dreaded connection loss to my LS9. The other products I have that utilize the ipad for mixing have also been rock solid, even with the ios8 release.