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Title: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: jasonfinnigan on April 16, 2014, 02:40:54 PM
I'm in the market for some new mains. I'm eyeing the EV ETX Series. I'm thinking of Getting 2x EV ETX 35p and 4x EV ETX 18SP and using some powered 15's I have as some center/front fills if needed.

This will be for concerts, festival and church conference type environments. It needs to be able handle basically any genre from country, gospel, worship, to rock and metal. and some outdoor (possibly summer concerts in Southwest VA weather so low -mid 80s temps). with anywhere from 100 to 1,000 people (no more).

Do you think this would be a good setup.

My other thought would be to get some used EAW KF850EFs, and some QSC amps, but it seems that would be less SPL, not to mention their rather old speakers, and would likely end up costing a lot more (especially with the cost of amps, NL4s wiring harness for racks, more racks, etc etc).

Any ideas?

I would wait til I hear them but my dealer is going to make a good deal on them to me if I pre-order them but tomorrow is the last day EV will let them get the price low enough on pre-order to where they can make the deal so I need to make a decision soon.

I am pretty sure they will produce enough volume (say 90db outdoors @ 100feet/foh mix position) my main concern is if they will hold up outdoors and not cut out. I haven't used a lot of powered gear so the fact that they have no fans scares me, but again this is SW VA so it's not extreme high temps.
Title: Re: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: Thomas Le on April 16, 2014, 04:04:09 PM
It's hard to tell with the ETX since it was recently announced at NAMM and it's not proven in the wild yet. Have you looked at the JBL (PRX735 on PRX718XLF) or QSC (KW153 on KW181) equivalents?
Title: Re: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: Corey Scogin on April 16, 2014, 04:11:26 PM
My other thought would be to get some used EAW KF850EFs, and some QSC amps, but it seems that would be less SPL, not to mention their rather old speakers, and would likely end up costing a lot more (especially with the cost of amps, NL4s wiring harness for racks, more racks, etc etc).

EAW KF850's are in a class well above the EV ETX, JBL PRX, QSC KW, etc.  The output from the 850 should crush that of the ETX.  I'm not saying one's a better fit for you than the other, just pointing out that those don't compare.  I do agree that the 850's will end up costing you more.  You'll also need more people to lift and stack the 850's at 250lbs ea.
Title: Re: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: jasonfinnigan on April 16, 2014, 05:50:23 PM
EAW KF850's are in a class well above the EV ETX, JBL PRX, QSC KW, etc.  The output from the 850 should crush that of the ETX.  I'm not saying one's a better fit for you than the other, just pointing out that those don't compare.  I do agree that the 850's will end up costing you more.  You'll also need more people to lift and stack the 850's at 250lbs ea.

Yeah I know. We rent/hire out mains and own everything else, for bigger shows it's been much cheaper. But we are starting to to a lot of smaller stuff and outdoor festivals that just don't have the budget for that.

I think the ones we usually rent are some DB Tech DVA (we ground stack them though). They used to rent us the EAW 850s but they haven't rented them out in years, and are actually selling them hence why I brought those up. They want around $950 each for them with road case cables and all. But I really think for our small events it's just going to be too pricey the speakers are the problem - the cost of the amps - especially in a triamp situation is going to be $$$$$.

Ok, so to make this easier. Lets say we will continue to rent at the 1,000 people level. But lets say the system should be able to handle an 800 people auditorium (indoors, but I guess that's a given) and up to 300-500ish outdoors.

I'm honestly not a fan of the QSC K series I heard them once.. Didn't like them. The JBL PRX 735 looks interesting to me. I haven't used any of there powered gear (or really much any powered gear besides db Techs). But I've heard that some of them had issues with the power supplies going bad. is that still true?

I guess I'm having an annoying time with this because when we rent, we always have way more power and head room. But to keep up with the times and competition we need to get a smaller system of our own for the small concerts/festivals, which is trying to do more with less.

So you think the JBL PRX735 say 1 or 2 per side and 4 PRX718XLF subs (maybe more later) could handle the 800 people indoor (say your average high school auditorium that holds 700-800) and 300-500 in an outdoor field? If you don't think so we will probably just hold off an and keep renting as we are looking to spend a max of around $10k for mains, not really looking for $60k of FOH speakers - that's why we hire gear (and we aren't responsible for maintaining it), I'm just hoping we can get something in the $10k range for these smaller events.

Title: Re: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: jasonfinnigan on April 17, 2014, 12:02:48 PM
Just an update. The EAW 850 are just so old at the point we are going to stay away from them. We may just buy some of the JBL PRX or SRX (unpowered) and use them and see how we can grow with it. Brand name is usually key so I'm going to stay away from the EVs as much as they look like good competitors for the small festival market, JBL is more well known and the lack of a fan on the EVs scares me.

We are pretty big on just renting mains, but it's not very cost effective for the small things. I think we may wait around til August or so to get moving on it.
Title: Re: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on April 17, 2014, 12:11:37 PM
Just an update. The EAW 850 are just so old at the point we are going to stay away from them. We may just buy some of the JBL PRX or SRX (unpowered) and use them and see how we can grow with it. Brand name is usually key so I'm going to stay away from the EVs as much as they look like good competitors for the small festival market, JBL is more well known and the lack of a fan on the EVs scares me.

We are pretty big on just renting mains, but it's not very cost effective for the small things. I think we may wait around til August or so to get moving on it.
Passing on the KF850s is a good move - particularly non-Z versions.
Title: Re: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: Brian Jones on April 17, 2014, 06:23:54 PM
I have very little experience with them (rented once due to a free upgrade) but I really liked the pair of QRx 112.
I have K10s and like them for the size of event I normally do for DJing, but the QRx was really a big step up powered with the RMX2450.
If I were trying to cover that size crowd regularly, I would definitely consider them.

I thought I would put this out there for others who have used them week end and week out to comment on.
I also like the Phoenix on paper (never heard them) given the specs and the rotatable horn which makes it more versatile. 
Title: Re: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: royaljenner on April 18, 2014, 08:52:55 AM
Hi,
If you are considering passive tops, I suggest auditioning the JTR Speakers (jtrspeakers.com) Noesis Series 3TX or 2TX.

The 3TX was demonstrated at the Indianapolis speaker Shootout and was compared to many top cabs, incl. SRX722 and QRX212.  The 3TX was(is) stunningly clear (horn loading down to 450 hz) with incredible output, and better yet only 53 lbs.

I DJ (pre recorded Pop and EDM) and purchased the 2TX (1dB less output, horn down to 1khz) and love them for what I do.  If I were about live sound, I would definitely consider paying more for the 3TX.

P.S.  I can vouch for the ease of hauling and pole mounting the Noesis.

Regards,
Royal
Title: Re: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: Benjamin Gingerich on April 18, 2014, 09:09:58 AM
A dealer who has a set of the new EV tops to demo told me that they are pretty impressive, they utilize FIR filters in their processing and sound very natural, however they are not the 850's or Community 960s in terms of power, he compared the output to the Community sls920 only it goes down to about 95hz with no problems. 
With the 920's being one of my favorit small format speakers, it has my interest.
Title: Re: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: Brent_Handy on April 19, 2014, 09:06:57 PM
It's hard to tell with the ETX since it was recently announced at NAMM and it's not proven in the wild yet. Have you looked at the JBL (PRX735 on PRX718XLF) or QSC (KW153 on KW181) equivalents?

While you are correct, ETX is not really out yet, JBL PRX7 series is not really that tried and true either.  They fixed the fan in the amp module, but what about woofer reliability?

We have the whole ETX line in our shop and they sound great for the money.  The woofers sound better to me than KW181s.  I think QSC and JBL will be playing catch up.  The ETX is not as abrasive at loud volumes.  EV will sell a crap ton of them.

I don't think anything in this MI range is suitable for 1k people crowds, especially in the context of a rowdy church service.
Title: Re: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: Aaron Talley on April 19, 2014, 11:28:25 PM
The ETX boxes you are talking about sound REALLY good. I went to a demo the other day.
They won't do the large crowds though, but neither will anything else in that range.
The subs are far and away better than anything in that range of products on the market.

We will be moving our QSC boxes out to make room for the ETX

Maybe KF650z would be a better fit if you are doing the 600 to 1000 crowd more frequently than the 400 seat crowd. Depends on the room and other things. We had some of those and they are great. Don't skimp on the amps.
Some used ARCs would maybe work too.
Title: Re: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: jasonfinnigan on April 20, 2014, 07:24:39 PM
Well any recommendations of any boxes? As I noted in my follow up post, something that only covers 300ish (maybe 500max) people outdoor open field and say 800 indoor in a setting like a high school auditorium that holds 700-800 people.

Requirements: Sub $2k per box. Powered or unpowered is okay, but powered would be great for weight/convince.  (can be new or used)
Weight: Needs to be sub 200 pounds per box, preferably at 100 or less per box.
Can be line array or cluster etc boxes.
Preferably can run amps or powered speakers on 1-2 20AMP Circuits (though not necessary but would be nice)

Also what would be your thoughts on starting out with two of the DB DVA T4 per side an growing to more if needed? (and buying subs of course too). I already know I like the DB DVA t8 but there a little more expensive than I'd like. the t4 are the prefect price if they'd give me the levels I need. for now we would rarely if ever be flying them. But that would be a possibility in very long term future.
http://www.dbtechnologies.com/EN/Products/dva/dva_t4_p712.aspx
Title: Re: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: jasonfinnigan on April 20, 2014, 09:44:48 PM
I think my final decision is going to be Db tech DVA T4s Starting with 3 per side. (and growing as we do).

We will likely rent subs for a while. But I plan on buying 2 DVA S20s per side at some point.

I'll probably hold off on purchases for a few months thought. I just rather think it through for a good while. but it seems like it will be the best route.

Thanks for all your input!
Title: Re: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: Brent_Handy on April 20, 2014, 09:53:21 PM
I think my final decision is going to be Db tech DVA T4s Starting with 3 per side. (and growing as we do).

We will likely rent subs for a while. But I plan on buying 2 DVA S20s per side at some point.

I'll probably hold off on purchases for a few months thought. I just rather think it through for a good while. but it seems like it will be the best route.

Thanks for all your input!

Just remember that it is not the number of people what the area dimensions that you have to consider.  Is it 100 people in a 25 x 45 room, or is it 100 people spread out over a 250' field?  You are on the right path in choosing something arrayable and scalable.
Title: Re: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: KenShaner on May 24, 2014, 04:32:32 AM
The EV ETX system is right on track with the requirements you are looking for. 300 people in most outdoor settings to 800 indoors - the ETX 18's with any of the tops in that line will handle this no problem. For larger events we use the EV Phoenix Boxes and for events the size you are describing we actually use the EV Tour X line of speakers. We are now about to begin phasing out our passive Tour X boxes and actually replacing them with these ETX active boxes. The ETX has very high end components and are actually made with the Phoenix Drivers which in my opinion are some of the best out there ( which is why i use them in our larger systems ). Nothing wrong with going with the DB T4's, i've used them and they are okay but the ETX will do everything you're asking for and i have a feeling you won't have a regret in the world. I obviously love EV in general but i would buy the ETX ( also flyable if needed ) before going to the DB array. Good luck with it!
Title: Re: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: Tim McCulloch on May 24, 2014, 10:54:14 AM
Just remember that it is not the number of people what but the area dimensions that you have to consider.  Is it 100 people in a 25 x 45 room, or is it 100 people spread out over a 250' field?  You are on the right path in choosing something arrayable and scalable.

This.

I keep trying to pound this into some of the "clients who should know better" (i.e. AV shops and other sound companies).  It's about covering the audience geometry (area & elevation), not the number of bodies in that area.  This applies to conventional (non-vertical) speaker systems, too, but for some reason when they get a small vertical array, they stop worrying about coverage area.

We sent out a T4 rig on demo with a firm that does small hotel AV and offers DJ services, too.  The owner said he was absolutely unimpressed when he brought it back.  I inspected the speakers and found that level controls and EQ presets appeared to be randomly adjusted.  With that, I have no confidence that the inter-element angles were calculated with software and suspect that even if wrong, neither side of the PA was the mirror image of the other.  YOU MUST USE THE MANUFACTURER'S PROVIDED OR RECOMMENDED SOFTWARE.
Title: Re: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: Tim McCulloch on May 24, 2014, 11:18:49 AM
Well any recommendations of any boxes? As I noted in my follow up post, something that only covers 300ish (maybe 500max) people outdoor open field and say 800 indoor in a setting like a high school auditorium that holds 700-800 people.

Requirements: Sub $2k per box. Powered or unpowered is okay, but powered would be great for weight/convince.  (can be new or used)
Weight: Needs to be sub 200 pounds per box, preferably at 100 or less per box.
Can be line array or cluster etc boxes.
Preferably can run amps or powered speakers on 1-2 20AMP Circuits (though not necessary but would be nice)

Also what would be your thoughts on starting out with two of the DB DVA T4 per side an growing to more if needed? (and buying subs of course too). I already know I like the DB DVA t8 but there a little more expensive than I'd like. the t4 are the prefect price if they'd give me the levels I need. for now we would rarely if ever be flying them. But that would be a possibility in very long term future.
http://www.dbtechnologies.com/EN/Products/dva/dva_t4_p712.aspx

We're T4 owners, users, and DB/RCF dealers.  We also have a large investment in JBL VerTec and 12 KF850e, so I can speak with some experience here.

Buying 3 each T4 will be disappointing, especially for the price (not that they're expensive, to the contrary).  You're putting up nearly $6000 per side.  For that money you'd get more sound, better controlled, with a trap box from JBLs Venue Precision line, or Vue A series, or Fulcrum Acoustic FA models... and have money left over.  Not a sexy vertical array, and not scalable or particularly expandable, but faster to set up, more goof-proof and far less dependent upon the skill of the system tech.

Frankly the T4 (or most any other compact line array) doesn't behave well or have sufficient low-mid/LF output until you get a line of 6' or more, and that's 8 boxes a side.  Then it rocks, with a surprising amount of LF for 8, 8" speakers... but that ain't gonna happen with 3 on a tree.

I also strongly caution against buying a vertical array on the "box a month club" plan.  SOMETHING always comes up that needs money and you'll never complete the arrays in a timely fashion (if at all).  Trust me, I've seen it far too many times.  If you don't have the money or time to do it right the first time, when will you ever find the money or time to do it over?
Title: Re: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: Robert Healey on May 24, 2014, 12:11:59 PM
The ETX has very high end components and are actually made with the Phoenix Drivers which in my opinion are some of the best out there ( which is why i use them in our larger systems ).

The ETX subs have the Phoenix drivers, the tops don't. The ETX-12P has a DH3 HF driver (same as the Sx300 and many of EVs other mid grade speakers) and the woofers from the TourX line. I'm sure the built in DSP works some magic, but they're basically powered TourX boxes.

I'm holding out for a FIR drive powered QRX or Xi product line from EV...
Title: Re: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: jasonfinnigan on May 28, 2014, 06:19:40 PM
Hey Guys! Thanks for all the great responses. Sorry It has taken me so long to post back, just getting all of the online accounts sorted out (I think some people saw the mess over on soundforums but that's another story)

Anyway, I agree that's it's not just the amount of people you are covering but space. I would also argue that it's BOTH the amount of people and the venue (or outside space) area you are covering. People can absorb quite a bit of sound, which is a good thing for reverberant rooms indoors. I would also say that *normally* the size and amount of people should be related. unless you are working for one of those people that either pack people in like sardines or spreed them out on camp ground type festivals (let's not even get into the bands who rent huge venues and only have 2 people show up).

I do agree about the DVA T4's I have some worries about that route. We have rented them before and always use DB Techs prediction software just like I use EASE for other speakers. The lowest I've ever gone with the DB techs is 4 boxes a side. If it takes 6-8 boxes per side to do a good setup, will do it I don't want to skimp out. My major concern has to do with the speakers themselves about all I've mixed on the T4's is bluegrass and country. We also do a lot of heavy metal and rock, I'm not sure that the T4's could handle or are made to take that. They seem like they are meant for more "light weight" work than that but, I would be happy to be wrong. The other thing is we'd only ever lift them maybe 16-20' in the air I think a line array really starts to shine more around flown at 30' with a good amount of boxes to control the patterns more, this is why I'm leaning to point source.


The ETX series looks great in the weight category, the problem is I'm afraid they are still MI gear even though they claim it is the pro/touring (tourX) line. I'm also wondering about the db level they can hold up to. Also the other interesting thing is; for what I'd pay (actually less) than the 8x  ETX subs, I can get a used system with 4x EAW 850z's and 4x Grundorf GT3600 Subs along with the Amps/rack (all QSC) to drive them as a 4 way system. That would come in around $10,000. I guess I should also mention these aren't normal EAW speakers they are custom made ones by a local (but providing national service) production service company that make them, they are basically the same as the EAW 850z in design but slightly modified and beefed up by their engineers. I believe they said they weight about the same as the real thing. They are pretty well accepted cabinets as national acts have played through them multiple times. They are selling both the subs and the tops at $1,000 a box as they have upgraded to the Turbosound Aspect TA-880H speakers.


I do like the weight of the ETX series and would go that way if I know they can keep up. I've been total by some people that the EV ETX series can almost keep up with their 850z system. The ETX 35p does have a 60 degree coverage so they can be splayed as well. The ETX series is also the only one I haven't heard so I'd have to take a chance and order one of them online first without hearing it (not MI stores around here).

Power isn't really a concern too much anymore as we invested in a 100AMP distro.

The 850 System @ $10,000 is very tempting. I guess unless someone thinks we should give the ETX a try an see if it is really more than a MI box. I will just go with the 850 route. as we wouldn't even begin to start a line array setup with that nor do we need a line array quite yet.
Title: Re: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: Mario Pollio on September 06, 2014, 05:59:48 PM
I auditioned the ETX speakers not too long ago. The subs, especially the ETX-18sp is EXTREMELY impressive. The tops are very VERY good, but don't seem to stand out above the other comparable tops in this range by other companies. They have a brighter sound then my PRX's.

Those of you saying they won't be able to handle larger crowds, I'm willing to bet they can. The ETX system is very scalable. I'm sure with 6 or 8 ETX-18sp's and 4 ETX-35p's and maybe ETX-12p's/ETX-15p's as side fills you'll be able to do 1,000 people. The built in DSP allows you to set delays and everything so it's a nice, very simple set up.
Title: Re: EV ETX 35p & 18SP
Post by: Jeremy Young on September 07, 2014, 01:04:31 PM
I'm waiting to demo the ETX line myself, but haven't yet heard it so I can't speak their performance. 

I can however tell you that I own a pair of EV ZXA5-90 boxes, and I am tickled pink with their performance.  Don't stray away from EV simply because of anything you may have heard about the live-x and zlx offerings.  Everyone needs to offer something entry level these days.

With just my pair of mid-high's and four 2x18" bass bins, we filled a 172 person theatre with hard rock levels and had ample headroom to spare.  I'll bet with 60-deg boxes two per side you could get to the 400-person (i know i'm doing it again) level.  Since buying them I've been looking for a powered sub that could keep up, and the ETX18sp seems to be one of the few that could contend on paper.  However, for other reasons I'm saving for TH118's. 

+1 to the QRX series.  Other than the 115/75 that caught fire as a monitor for my lead guitar/keyboard player, (long story, he was always too loud) i've seen those cabinets really hold their own.  Lots of people around here seem to be running the QRX212/75 cabs with great success for applications similar to yours.  If you can find some JBL SRX series stuff in good shape, those are another favourite around here.  The horns are a little too "rock" for my taste, but for some that's what fits the bill, and they sure do rock!