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[Chris Harrison]

I am in the process of gathering information and pricing for a multitrack recording solution at church.  I'm in the computer field so that side of it is covered.  I'm a self trained sound tech at church so my knowledge there is only limited to my experience, which is not that much.

My question is this.  I have a A&H GL2400 mixer.  I'm using the direct outs on the board for in ear monitors.  Can I use a cable splitter on the direct outs so that I can go to the audio interface and the in-ears, or will I lose to much audio quality for this to work?  If a cable splitter on each individual channel I want to record won't work, how do I do it?

[Chris Harrison]

Done and Done.  Thanks for making me not be lazy.   

[Frank DeWitt]

You should be OK.  As a general rule, splitting a line level output is OK Combining inputs is not.

Frank

[Mike Spitzer]

I don't record to PC, but I mix on a GL2400. I use two of the matrices for recording. The first outputs the groups and LR to a recorder since our worship leader likes to listen to it later. That's nice, since what you want in the mains isn't always what you want on the recorded track. The matrix lets you tweak the group levels so it sounds better. Another matrix is used the same way, except with a single group used to record the sermon.

If you have a real need to do multi-track, then yeah, splitting the direct outs will work. Just know that you'll cut the signal going to each source, so the gain on all of your IEMs and the PC will need to be pushed up. I've never split off of the GL, so I don't know if the gain increase will introduce noise, or not. Best to test it before somebody actually needs to use it.

-mS

[Chris Harrison]

I don't record to PC, but I mix on a GL2400. I use two of the matrices for recording. The first outputs the groups and LR to a recorder since our worship leader likes to listen to it later. That's nice, since what you want in the mains isn't always what you want on the recorded track. The matrix lets you tweak the group levels so it sounds better. Another matrix is used the same way, except with a single group used to record the sermon.

-mS

Hhmmm, interesting thought here.  I've never used the matrices at all.  To be perfectly honest I've only barely tried to figure out what they were for.  That being said your method could allow me to do this, at least initially, cheaper.  Instead of buying a multitrack (more than 2 channels) A/D device, I could go with a cheaper 2 channel. It would give me the ability to record the sermon on one channel, and music on the other, while learning.  Then maybe when I want to upgrade to something more substantial it wouldn't be such a big learning curve.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Hhmmm, interesting thought here.  I've never used the matrices at all.  To be perfectly honest I've only barely tried to figure out what they were for.  That being said your method could allow me to do this, at least initially, cheaper.  Instead of buying a multitrack (more than 2 channels) A/D device, I could go with a cheaper 2 channel. It would give me the ability to record the sermon on one channel, and music on the other, while learning.  Then maybe when I want to upgrade to something more substantial it wouldn't be such a big learning curve.

The problem I see with multitrack recording is the amount of work that must be done after the service to produce a two-track recording for distribution.

As Mr. Spitzer pointed out, you don't always want the same mix on the recording as the live mix. If you can provide a submix -- either through matrix or simple AUX sends -- which approximates what you want, you may find that your workload is cut in half (and you can relax on Sunday afternoon).

There are tradeoffs. Your attention will be focused on the live mix (as it should be) and not on the recording mix, so the recording may not come out ideal. If you have an assistant you can assign to mix the recording, that can help, but even then the assistant will be influenced by the ambient sound unless he is running a separate mixer in an isolated booth. (Who wants to do that and miss out on the Communion of Saints in corporate worship?)

[mark ahlenius]

I am in the process of gathering information and pricing for a multitrack recording solution at church.  I'm in the computer field so that side of it is covered.  I'm a self trained sound tech at church so my knowledge there is only limited to my experience, which is not that much.

My question is this.  I have a A&H GL2400 mixer.  I'm using the direct outs on the board for in ear monitors.  Can I use a cable splitter on the direct outs so that I can go to the audio interface and the in-ears, or will I lose to much audio quality for this to work?  If a cable splitter on each individual channel I want to record won't work, how do I do it?

Hi,

I'd suggest just using the board for doing this mixing - but that of course depends on what you want to do with the output.

Stepping back, I'd have to ask why you are going to record the service?   What's the end goal.  If you are recording a worship service for putting up on the web or on CD's, you have to be very careful about copyright laws if its not your composed music to begin with.  At our church, we only put on the web/CD's the sermon portions for that very reason. 

But if you are recording a band for other reasons and copyrights are not an issue, then that's a different story altogether.

We have a Midas Verona board and I use one of the groups to record to a group fader which controls the level to a Marantz digital recorder.  I could also use one of the 4 Matrix's for doing the same, but prefer using a fader for the final output volume to the recorder.  We then upload the output files  off a compact flash to a PC where someone uses Audacity to re-edit the files and resample them for the web. 

hth,

'mark

[Chris Harrison]

As far as the why for recording to PC/Multi track.  I am drowning in CD's.  I record to CD currently, and recording, organizing, and storing Cd's for 3 services a week has become a nightmare.  I can't find a way to keep it all together.  I'm also getting more and more requests for services to be available for download on the web.  It's true that I can just take the CD home and rip it to MP3 and post it, and I'm done.  That does not solve my mountain of service CD's.  Nor does it solve the desire to record the music for review. 

The reason for recording the music is simply for the worship leader to go over it and fix musical/vocal issues.  We have times of spontaneous worship where there are songs that are being heard/played for the first time ever.  When the musicians and vocalist are in one according these are amazing times to watch and I currently don't record them because of limited CD time.  So there won't be any copyright issues as we will not be distributing this to the congregation.

I understand the point of multitrack recording taking the attention away from the service and live mix.  I do not want any of my volunteers to be taken out of the service in this manner.  Nor do I desire this for myself.  My initial thought was an 8 channel interface.  1 channel for the sermon which can be burned as soon as service is over.  Music would be on the last 7 channels which I could later mix down and give the worship leader a decent mp3 to review.  Maybe this more work than I'm thinking it will be.

All of my aux sends are taken.  Well, that's not technically true, as I currently record to CD using my pre-fader aux 4, but I wanted to record alongside the CD initially as I worked out he bugs of recording to PC.

If I can figure it out this weekend, I'm also pondering my response to Mr. Spitzer.  This is what I've come up with so far.  Getting a 2 channel interface, splitting the direct out of the pastors mic to one channel, and then splitting my aux 4 that I currently use for recording to the 2nd channel for music.  I think this is a simpler way to start if I can get it working.  The music mix won't be as good as if I was sending 7 separate tracks, and doing a mix down later, but it would give me what I'm looking for.  I think.  The 2 track style I think should be less labor intensive.

I appreciate all of the responses so far.  You guys are definitely helping me work this out.

[Mike Spitzer]

It may not give you exactly what you're looking for, but I record to an iKey RM3. They're pretty inexpensive (about $200) and work well. They just take in a stereo signal, though, so it doesn't have the multi-tracking you're looking for. It just takes the sermon or worship service straight to mp3 or wav, which eliminates the CDs. I used to record to CD, then go home, rip, and upload. I like this way better and anybody who really wants a CD can request one and pick it up the next week. That hardly ever happens anymore.

-mS

[Kent Thompson]

With only 7 channels of multi track you will have to be summing some things which may be slightly better than what you are doing now (depending on what and how much summing you need to do). I might lean toward just setting up a matrix until I could get a multi track device that would give enough channels to not have to do so much summing.
 
It may save you the CDs but, you are going to be spending more time on it and then there is the matter of archive space music especially 7 channels takes up a lot of space.
 

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