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Author Topic: Getting AC electricity to an elaborate PA system  (Read 14641 times)

Tony "T" Tissot

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Re: Getting AC electricity to an elaborate PA system
« Reply #70 on: June 26, 2007, 02:32:55 PM »

Mark Hobbs wrote on Tue, 26 June 2007 11:06

What do most PA gurus do to learn all about the electrical part of the game? You don't all go through an apprenticeship program do you?



(I am not a guru) - In a sense it's one big (usually self-directed) apprenticeship program. I was in the IBEW (but mainly did telecom and low-voltage).

- Local libraries always have decent books on power to get the basics. NEC code handbooks are also a great read.

- Ask everyone you meet about how they do power. Hire an electrician at a venue and see what they do. (But don't just trust - verify!)

- The makers of power distribution stuff are great resources. Most will show you exactly how everything is wired. Great place to learn how BIG feeds, become increasingly smaller distribution points - and the hierarchy of loads from feeder to outlet.

- You county/city building inspector. If you are doing commercial re-work and mounting anything permanent - many places require an electrical inspection and permit.

- Some of the stuff may be counter intuitive to grasp at first - like single phase versus 3 phase and why you don't have 3 separate neutrals - but makes sense if you understand how power is derived at the transformer, and where neutral and ground really come from.

My first foray into power was 100KW Par rigs - and (do not do this!!) welding clips for tie-ins. (It was the 70's). Wonder why no one was ever killed.
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Ron Hebbard

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Re: Getting AC electricity to an elaborate PA system
« Reply #71 on: June 26, 2007, 02:49:12 PM »

Bennett Prescott wrote on Tue, 26 June 2007 18:33

Mark Hobbs wrote on Tue, 26 June 2007 12:46

What is bottom feeder???

Bottom feeders are the guys with ancient PAs hacked together out of seemingly random parts who do this as a hobby and undercut the pricing of all the real player, aggrivating them to no end. You seem to have a pretty good handle of where you are and where you're going, so I'm pretty sure you don't qualify, but I'm also pretty sure you've had to deal with those sorts of people.


Hi Bennett!

"Bottom feeder"  Isn't that always the first one you're asked to dig for on the out?  ;^)

Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
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Donnie Evans

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Re: Getting AC electricity to an elaborate PA system
« Reply #72 on: June 29, 2007, 01:31:05 PM »

E. Lee Dickinson wrote on Tue, 26 June 2007 03:00

E. Lee Dickinson wrote on Mon, 25 June 2007 21:49

9 amps. 6 to 9 circuits. You're being overquoted on multiple rack packs and a main PD.

ONE 50a rack pack would be enough for your rig, but I'd recomend one for each amp rack to save cabling time.

You got $600 to spend on power?


I'm going to take this back a bit, after actually reading how you're setting up your amps in terms of bridging and loading.

You need a 100a distro, not a 50a distro. This means you're going to be looking at doing tie-ins to company disconnects.

100a distro, still not hard to come by, and nowhere near $4,000. I were you, I'd look at doing a 100a main panel with appropriate breakouts (50a 240 if possible) to rack packs.

How are you setting up your racks?


From reading all these ac distro threads, I'm beginning to design a distro for myself.  After all my calculations, I think we would need a 100a distro.  What type of feeder is big enough to handle a 100a load?  (I'm talking 240v single phase here by the way).  I've also been looking at www.ampshop.com's distro's and particularly like the 550a rack-mount complete distro package.  What type of feeder would this require and where would I be able to tie in and get 550 amps?
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Kris Krell

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Re: Getting AC electricity to an elaborate PA system
« Reply #73 on: June 29, 2007, 08:11:42 PM »

Quote:

What type of feeder would this require


2/0

Quote:

and where would I be able to tie in and get 550 amps?




index.php/fa/9973/0/
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Bennett Prescott

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Re: Getting AC electricity to an elaborate PA system
« Reply #74 on: June 30, 2007, 12:52:54 AM »

Considering that you can run an arena sound system off three phase 100a, I wouldn't worry about it.

Sound people tend to over-spec their power so that there is no sag during system draw peaks (think kick, or a loud vocal yell). It is not at all uncommon to plug a distro capable of several hundred amps into a 100a (breakered) service, in my experience.
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Steven Welwood

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Re: Getting AC electricity to an elaborate PA system
« Reply #75 on: August 14, 2007, 03:55:37 PM »

Tony "T" Tissot wrote on Mon, 25 June 2007 00:29

There are a number of distros that do single phase - 2 leg (120/240) - Two hots, 120 to neutral, 240 hot-to-hot.

Most of the 2X 50 amp stuff you'll see in a lot of places will be that. It's a simple twist lock connector. Motion labs, ACD-100, etc., etc., can all be easily fitted for 120/240 with the "California" connector.


Bennett Prescott wrote on Mon, 25 June 2007 20:49

I ran 16Kw of PA, backline, and FOH off a single 50a twist for years. Never had any problems. I see no reason why 1-2 RacPacs (which is what I had, 2 of 'em, one in the mains rack, one in the monitors rack) wouldn't hold the OP. 50a service is easy to come by, many clubs have 14-50R on the wall, build a cable that takes that to twist, jumper through one rack to the other, and you're golden. 6/4 is reasonably affordable and easy to find/coil/carry. Any place will at least be able to take tails from your feeder and tie you into their breaker panel... who doesn't have 50a 240v available?


Hi Tony and Bennett,

I'm learning a lot from this thread, but I'm still trying to put together different pieces of info to get a more complete picture of how this works.

Are you two talking about the same type of system here? (I hope you are. . .)

I also read somewhere (on the LAB, I think) that many people over-build their distros because they don't realize a 50 amp supply means 50 amp per pole. Does that apply to the system(s) you guys are talking about. Does it mean you actually have 100 amps available with your distros? If not, could you clarify what it would apply to?

Thanks.

Tony "T" Tissot

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Re: Getting AC electricity to an elaborate PA system
« Reply #76 on: August 14, 2007, 04:14:13 PM »

Steven Welwood wrote on Tue, 14 August 2007 12:55

Are you two talking about the same type of system here? (I hope you are. . .)

I also read somewhere (on the LAB, I think) that many people over-build their distros because they don't realize a 50 amp supply means 50 amp per pole. Does that apply to the system(s) you guys are talking about. Does it mean you actually have 100 amps available with your distros? If not, could you clarify what it would apply to?

Thanks.


Yes, Bennett and me both refer to the same basic arrangement.

Without getting into the discussion of why 240VAC 50 amp service is, in-fact, 50 amps...

You can run 100 amps of 120VAC off of it.
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