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[Tony Lou]

Hi All, have previously lurked in and out of LAB for years, went "hippie" for a while, and back with a new hair style, and peculiar piercings

Hugz to those that have been good, slaps to those that haven't. Or vise-versa

May well be charged with sounding "The Misfits" for an Aussie mini-tour in March of next year and was hoping to get a vibe on them.

Rider states (not verbatim);
*Backline volume around 119db
*125db at Mix Position (!!)
*Jerry wants 4 x 15"+2" Bi-amp wedges in a semi-circle around him.

Indeed.

Who here has had the pleasure?

Tony

[Bennett Prescott]

Tony,

Can you upload a copy of the rider? Are you sure that those SPL figures aren't just standard "here's what we'd like to be able to do" numbers? My rider asks for a PA capable of 120dB A at FOH, but I ain't going past 100.

[Tony Lou]

Hi Bennett,

Thank you for your response.
Delighted to send you the rider. I'll PM it to you.
Note that my rider is specifically prefaced as "international", so maybe they're being overly conservative in the fear of "potential hickness", (and a touch rediculous :/.
(at least, I hope so!)

Mind you, no weigthing was specified, so your "A" weighting draws distantly near. Nevertheless, absurd.

Cheers,

Tony

[Frederik Rosenkjær]

This subject reminds me of Prodigy's rider, when they were in Copenhagen about two years back. The venue is capable of crowds of around 3-4000 people, and the rider specified 12x d&b B2-subs...for monitor/the stage alone!! (twelve!)  

[Chris Cowley]

Having seen the Prodigy at work, believe me they need it! The amount of low end head room they need is just unbelievable. When I say them (2500 cap venue) the had an 850 rig with about 32 KF850s and around 2.5 subs per top.It was ground stacked from floor to ceiling with the subs all the way accross the stage. Liam had 4 stacks of 850 (and 12 subs) just for his monitors!

These numbers are approximate, but you get the picture. What is clear in my mid is the fact the I saw the PA and was utterly gobsmacked (this coming from someone who generally doubles the manufacturers recommended number of subs already)!

What the Prodigy ask for is a minimum and they will use every little bit you give them.

[Chris Cowley]

Also reminds of when a friend of mine did monitors for Flint (Keith's side project). 400 cap venue with 4 B2 and 8 stacks of C4 each side, plus 2 B2 and 8 stacks of C4 each side on stage! plus the (then brand new) M2 for monitors (Keith had 4 - fucking loud)

[Jim Brown]

Having had the 'pleasure' of a Misfits gig a few things I can tell you:

Rider states (not verbatim);
*Backline volume around 119db

Didn't measure it but it was definitely louder than the average rock and roll level even after getting them to turn down.

*125db at Mix Position (!!)

Again I didn't measure it but I'd take earplugs as the tour manager probably will ask you to turn it up even when it seems too loud already.

*Jerry wants 4 x 15"+2" Bi-amp wedges in a semi-circle around him.

And boy does he like them loud.   Fortunately his mic stays in the same position in the stand all night so you can get it safe that way.   These are the critical ones to ring out if you're short of time as I recall his monitor requests at speech level into the mic being painfully loud.

Also in monitor world you'll want a solid drum fill as the drummer takes kick snare and toms and, guess what, he likes it loud too.   SL mix didn't seem anything out of the ordinary IIRC certainly not beside the other two.

Lead vocals jump between bassist and guitarist and they do >30 songs in about 90 minutes.   FOH is a pretty straightforward punk mix if you've got a big enough system to cope: I wouldn't contemplate scrimping on the PA for this gig.

[Stuart Pendleton]

I did them at a club for about 300 people two weeks ago.  The rider is a nightmare, but the realitites aren't as long as the gear is suited to the venue.  They were pretty easy to work with.  The weird drums never got to sounding good in the club, and drummer never got the level of monitors he preferred, but he made do.  Other two guys were pretty easy to please.

My partners and I own gear not much different than anybody else's standard small club gear (about 11K FOH and about 6K monitors) and they accepted everything as was.  We used:

GL2200/32
JBL SR4733X (one per side) powered by RMX 2450 each
MP255S (3 per side) powered by CE-1000 each
MP415 (6x) for monitors powered by CE-1000 each
DBX 1221's and a DRPA on each monitor mix
DRPA FOH
TC Electronics M-One

Off topics were just 20x par 56 FOH and 8x par 38 on backtruss which was less than they wanted.  

We blew the circuits in the club (even with provided distro...) for the monitors partway through show and they just slid them offstage and continued.  By the time we got powered back up, the monitors were MIA so they finished the night sans monitors.  I am sure they weren't thrilled, but we made it and comments from punters and warm up bands were that show sounded great. (With a crew of two and one of us running monitors/FOH, doing everything else is tough for one guy so I didn't fault the helper too badly for taking a few minutes to find the power problem...100 feet away in a separate room is where distro was located.)

Don't let the rider throw you.  If the gear will do the venue, they will work with you.  Concentrate on off topics, since that was their biggest gripe.  We did not give them separate LD, ME, and BE as requested since we are normally a club sized company.

Talk with them, tell them what you got, and it should be OK.  The rider is for their arena sized shows.....

[Dave Lowum]

Here we go again...

While I'm sure that the show you did went well, your last comment kind of irks me, and brings me back to the thread on "ridiculous" monitor needs for club stops on a tour.

The fact is that monitoring needs do NOT change based on the venue capacity.  Period.  One of the bands for which I do FOH/PM duties includes a roster of eight performers, all of who sing.  Ideally, I need seven steam-powered mixes, plus three IEM sends, but I can get away with five powered mixes, plus the ear feeds.  It really doesn't matter whether the show is in a 7000 seat theatre, an outdoor festival, or in a 300 seat club setting, the monitor requirements DO NOT CHANGE.  Yes, I will adjust my FOH requirements based on the venue, but not the deck requirements.  

In reference to the OP's description, 115dB from the backline is not out of the question for a punk show, and was included in the rider for you to realize/understand the scope of the audio requirements.  To have "mix authority," you will need to have AT LEAST 4dB more system SPL than the backline is putting out, and 6dB is a comfortable amount of headroom.

The monitor call for four wedges is not unheard of in the industry, and given the SPL of the backline, is probably appropriate.  You could adjust the number of wedges based on the SPL capability of your inventory, but shoot for a target of 120+dB at the mic capsule.

To echo previous threads, yes, there are "ridiculous" riders out there, but from the description, it seems like the band's PM is on the beam.  Including the backline SPL merely explains WHY the rig needs to be stout, and in my mind, moves it soundly into the "this IS what I need" category.

In the end, just don't bring a knife to a gunfight.  If you don't have the rig, either sub-hire the parts you need, or subcontract another company, or pass on the show.  If you bring a substandard rig, you'll do yourself, your equipment, the audience, and the band a disservice.

[Mark Hartzell]

Dave Lowum wrote on Fri, 02 December 2005 10:04

Here we go again... The fact is that monitoring needs do NOT change based on the venue capacity.  Period.

Maybe not, but the SIZE of the stage WILL.  We do "nationals" with some pretty size able riders at a 500 cap club with a 20'x 20' stage.  There's no way you are going to get 10 mixes,12 wedges with 2 stacks of side fills, plus a drum fill on a stage that size.  I tell the purchaser, if this is what a particular band must have, then don't buy that band!

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