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[Isaac Huff]

You're going to benefit more from having more boxes than from having a bigger amp.  I've used the CE4k / SR4719X combination and it's a fine match (one box per channel).  Trying to put a lot more power into those 2 boxes is going to reach a point of dimishing returns, where power compression sets in noticeably.  I'm not saying that the I-Tech would be bad -- just that 2 more subs and another CE4k is going to be better.  Also, this gives you something to fall back on if something dies during a show.  By creating redundancy (rather than having a single point of failure at the I-Tech) you protect yourself from becoming totally inoperable.

Isaac Huff

[dave stojan]

Travis wrote on Sun, 20 June 2004 08:41

Jamin, try it this way. Get another CE 4000 and bridge both of them into each sub. That will put about 2400 watts into each sub which is about its peak handling. But remember to get a 3db increase you have to double the power and you will have done that. A 3db increase is just barely noticeable though but your headroom will go up. Then you will already have the amp when you get another set of the subs. Then you will pick up about 6db or better. I say pick up the double 15's run them tri-amped with the tops and get those 18's on a aux for a four way system. It will also help to get the tops above everyones head. Oh yea then pick up another set of tops. Another thought, how are the speakers wired inside the subs. Are both speakers wired to pin 1 on the speak-on or is one on pin 1 and the other on pin 2? Maybe try this, set up half the system stack both subs and one top. Keep the power off on one sub and bring up the volume, then bring the other sub into play. That should give you an idea of what it would be like.

Bone pick time. 3 db is noticeable. 1 db is tough to discern in a complex signal (easier with a constant tone but still subtle). If 3 db was barely noticeable how would 10db be twice as loud? In fact there are papers out there citing 6~8db as being perceptually twice as loud. Miffe claims extrasenory perception - able to split tenth db's. (BTW I hope he's doing well in the land of the midnight sun).

If only Yamaha would reprint their bible and correct their error(s).

Sub placement in the intended venues can have much better impact than simply more power. To me more power provides clean transient peak handling - keeping the amplifiers out of clip really extends the life of the speakers; it doesn't really provide that much more volume (this said in the context of say 2400 watts vs 1200 watts). At the top end power compression basically undoes what the extra power is trying to accomplish. Keeping the gear going and out of the repair shop is priority 1.

As the target venues are small (100~300 peeps) 4 of those bad boys (4719X) may take up more room than is available. Experience around this town (Houston) is electrical service is nearly ALWAYS an afterthought & skimpy - CE4000's are about as outlet friendly as they come (as are the I-techs).

In sum I like Travis' ideas a lot - I just disagree with the 3db statement.

All the best -Dave

[RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS]

Greg Cameron wrote on Sat, 19 June 2004 22:33

TimmyP wrote on Fri, 18 June 2004 22:52 The subharmonic synth is, for the most part, meant to add lows to bass, kick, and keys.  Use of this is IMHO a bad idea because: 1) Most subs can't do anything below about 50Hz, and indeed should be high passed around there.  No use feeding them even more of what they cannot reproduce. 2) Folks run aux-fed subs to get rid of "low end gak" (stuff that's washing/leaking into the vocal and other mics).  Using a subharmonic synth will add to this "gak". There are plenty of subs out there can go well below 50Hz, and do so with useful results. I think real issue with sub harmonic synths, is that they can add harmonics with significant energy below the lowest root frequency being reproduced, that are below the tunning of a lot of subs. This will cause them to unload and destroy the drivers. I would be leery of running one on any system that was not specifically tuned to go very low, that had plenty of subs, and lots of power to drive them. Cheers, Greg

My subs go REAl low, HPF at 22 Hz.  I still wouldn't use the sub synth in the DRPA.  Just push your speakers with the correct power and you are fine.  If you search the JBL website for the white paper on power handling of speakers, you will notice that their "RMS" rating is what they consider the "Minimum" power rating.  The CE4000 is just barely the minimum for the SR4718X speakers.  Bridging one to each box would be a better choice, just pay close attention to your HPF.