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[Paul John Volzone]

Something ive been thinking about and looking into is the requirements into receiving certifications: electrical, theater and arena rigging. Its just something in the long term that i would think i would need in the live sound or install industry and from what i have read, many documented and qualified hours are needed; very similar to getting someone to qualify a person looking to get a contractors licence. (Website i was referencing http://etcp.plasa.org/) Was wondering how one goes about getting hours to do this. Anywhere i look, you need experience and a cert be employed to do this line of work... but to receive a certification, one needs many hours of work experience. This seems like a circle that isn't exactly easy to get into. Do i Look for internships, or just send out applications and resumes to everyone and their brother? Just curious about all this. Any Leads or Advice Would Be Greatly Appreciated.

[No Name]

Where are you located?  Many countrys have different legislation and certification procedures regarding rigging and electrics.  For instance if I do my National Rigging Certificate over here in the UK, when I come over to work for a US rigging company, it is likely I would need to get a completely different certificate due to the differences in rigging practices in different countrys.

Adam

[Paul John Volzone]

U.S.A im just looking for an arrow in the right direction of where to look to know what i need, and how to go about. Right now i have NOTHING. Just a few hours helping fly arrays and hanging cans on small side jobs with a friend of a friend. I kinda am wondering the Path that is taken;

[Richard McLawhorn]

Hook up with your Local IATSE union.  They usually are willing to train riggers, however from what i have been told, you have to be willing to work your first several shows without pay...i've thought about doing it myself just for the learning experience...

Not really wanting to become a rigger for the union, but i think that it would be a great place to learn, considering they do the majority of the rigging for the major concert tours out there...

[Brad Weber]

Hook up with your Local IATSE union.  They usually are willing to train riggers, however from what i have been told, you have to be willing to work your first several shows without pay...i've thought about doing it myself just for the learning experience...

That would be a place to potentially get the experience required for an ETCP certification.

One of the problems I have with the ETCP certification is that the educational and experience requirements seem rather poorly defined and sometimes make little sense.  For example, in another forum someone had asked about a BS in Electrical Engineering and was told that was not directly relevant to the Entertainment Electrician certification and apparently would be viewed no different than a degree in literature or philosophy, without their even considering the actual content or coursework involved.  And I have yet to find any information on the web site identifying what would be considered to qualify in terms of experience.

[James Feenstra]

I've found that ETCP certification is essentially useless

I've had the required hours to take both tests for a long time but don't see the point in spending $1200 on writing them when they're not going to get me any more work

There's no official rigging certification in Canada/US needed to rig, and if ETCP became necessary a lot of quality riggers would be out of a job unless they could come up with the $600 or so to write the test

[Tim McCulloch]

Hook up with your Local IATSE union.  They usually are willing to train riggers, however from what i have been told, you have to be willing to work your first several shows without pay...i've thought about doing it myself just for the learning experience...

Not really wanting to become a rigger for the union, but i think that it would be a great place to learn, considering they do the majority of the rigging for the major concert tours out there...

This is fundamentally incorrect.  Federal law requires that all persons who are "permitted or suffered to work" be paid at least the federal minimum wage, and unions in general want to make sure every worker, in any capacity, is paid for their efforts.

Also most IATSE Local training programs are not free, although there may be a discount for members.

The issue for the OP is that he needs significant work experience to even qualify to sit for the test and he's seeking ways to get those hours.  IIRC you need 30 points to qualify, and rigging 1000 hrs/year it would take 3 years (1 point per 100 documented worked hours).

Tim McCulloch, Secretary-Treasurer
IATSE Local 190

[Richard McLawhorn]

That's interesting information Tim.  The guy i talked to told me that i would have to work several shows "learning" and basically shadowing on ground rigging  before i could even start training.  He told me that those hours spent shadowing would be unpaid.

So to qualify for the test you need 30 credits which equates to 3000 work hours?  How do you get the work hours? 

[Tim McCulloch]

I've found that ETCP certification is essentially useless

I've had the required hours to take both tests for a long time but don't see the point in spending $1200 on writing them when they're not going to get me any more work

There's no official rigging certification in Canada/US needed to rig, and if ETCP became necessary a lot of quality riggers would be out of a job unless they could come up with the $600 or so to write the test

There are several venues that now permit only certified riggers to work in their facilities, and IIRC the Washington St. Convention Center is one of them.  If a non-certified worker is found rigging, all the rigging must be taken down and inspected.  The venue may revoke the rigging contractor's permission to work in their facility, too.  They're dead serious about this.

Just because it hasn't happened to you, yet, doesn't mean this isn't coming... just as the IATSE riggers who had your attitude and lost their rigging jobs in the WSCC to the carpenter's union...

[Tim McCulloch]

That's interesting information Tim.  The guy i talked to told me that i would have to work several shows "learning" and basically shadowing on ground rigging  before i could even start training.  He told me that those hours spent shadowing would be unpaid.

So to qualify for the test you need 30 credits which equates to 3000 work hours?  How do you get the work hours?

"Shadowing" is not working.  You would not be permitted to assemble any rigging components that were to be used on that show (i.e. you wouldn't be "working" as such).  The reason they want someone to shadow is to find out if that person has the right mind set to be a rigger.   Not every one is cut out to do this work, it requires fierce resistance to compromise, pressure, and freedom from distraction.  There are plenty of smart and/or strong men & women out there that AREN'T cut out for this work, likewise one needn't be a Jeopardy! champ or a body builder, either.  Rigging is about absolutely doing things the RIGHT WAY, every time; the result is that you either don't kill people or we read about it here, the next day.

[Richard McLawhorn]

So how do you get the work hours to qualify for the test?

[Tim McCulloch]

So how do you get the work hours to qualify for the test?

The word "apprenticeship" comes to mind.  Also, until a venue requires only certified riggers one can work and/or receive OJT that will count.  Also remember that both "up" and "down" rigging apply.

I am not yet qualified to sit for the test, but our Local has 3 venues that do not require 100% certified rigging crew, so I am able to rig in those facilities and my work hours count.  Our local has begun in-house training again, so we also have an experienced/certified head rigger dealing with trainees.  We've found it harder to train good ground riggers than to train good up-riggers.  YMMV.

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