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Author Topic: Some wireless questions (can I make my Neumann KMS 104 wireless, etc...)  (Read 6292 times)

Jonathan Melot

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Hello all,

Our church has asked me to look into an entirely wireless stage setup.  I'm not the most savvy wireless guy, so I'd love to ask some questions....

1. We LOVE our Neumann KMS 104 mics.  Is there a way to make those wireless?  Some sort of universal wireless transmitter that wired mics can be plugged into?

2. Also, if we move to wireless guitar systems, how the heck do we still have the ability to tune guitars onstage?  I know we could run a rtack tuner inline on the side of the stage, but there's not really a way to mute the signal for silent tuning right (without walking over to the tuner unit and hitting a button).  Pedal tuners are so convenient, but would they be useless with a wireless system?

-jon
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Some wireless questions (can I make my Neumann KMS 104 wireless, etc...)
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2011, 03:21:09 PM »

Hello all,

Our church has asked me to look into an entirely wireless stage setup.  I'm not the most savvy wireless guy, so I'd love to ask some questions....

1. We LOVE our Neumann KMS 104 mics.  Is there a way to make those wireless?  Some sort of universal wireless transmitter that wired mics can be plugged into?

2. Also, if we move to wireless guitar systems, how the heck do we still have the ability to tune guitars onstage?  I know we could run a rtack tuner inline on the side of the stage, but there's not really a way to mute the signal for silent tuning right (without walking over to the tuner unit and hitting a button).  Pedal tuners are so convenient, but would they be useless with a wireless system?

-jon

Sennheiser can accommodate Neumann capsules, but I'm not sure if you can simply unscrew the wired capsule and transplant it to a HH transmitter.  I suggest you spend a bit on time on the Sennheiser USA site.

As to the rest, I have a tangental question: how does a wireless stage, with the inconvenience, expense and sacrificed reliability further the mission of the congregation?
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Re: Some wireless questions (can I make my Neumann KMS 104 wireless, etc...)
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2011, 03:46:25 PM »

Hello all,

Our church has asked me to look into an entirely wireless stage setup.  I'm not the most savvy wireless guy, so I'd love to ask some questions....

1. We LOVE our Neumann KMS 104 mics.  Is there a way to make those wireless?  Some sort of universal wireless transmitter that wired mics can be plugged into?

2. Also, if we move to wireless guitar systems, how the heck do we still have the ability to tune guitars onstage?  I know we could run a rtack tuner inline on the side of the stage, but there's not really a way to mute the signal for silent tuning right (without walking over to the tuner unit and hitting a button).  Pedal tuners are so convenient, but would they be useless with a wireless system?

-jon

Check these out:

http://www.sennheiserusa.com/professional_wireless-microphone-systems_plug-on-transmitter

http://www.lectrosonics.com/Transmitters/hm.html
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Jordan Wolf

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Re: Some wireless questions (can I make my Neumann KMS 104 wireless, etc...)
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2011, 03:50:44 PM »

Jon,

It sounds like your church is setting you up to fail without you or them realizing it...yet.

Wireless can be great, but it's certainly not the panacea most people are looking for.  Good wireless costs a LOT of money and, in my opinion, requires an even further look into the future to ensure that it remains viable down the road than would a wired system.

For me, the way(s) that a wireless system keeps external interference from affecting their performance is one of the biggest deciding factors simply because that alone determines the longevity of the system (and its ROI for the user/owner).

Due to the constantly-changing RF environment (analog and, especially so, digital), your entire system may still work just fine, but if something around your venue changes - up to and including portable RF devices that congregants bring in - that interference could cripple it.

My question for you is this: what about the current setup are you (whether it's just you or the church leaders) not liking?  You are coming to us with an idea of a solution without presenting us the issues you desire to deal with.

We need more info, please.
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Jordan Wolf
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Jordan Wolf

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Re: Some wireless questions...
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2011, 04:01:56 PM »

1. We LOVE our Neumann KMS 104 mics.  Is there a way to make those wireless?  Some sort of universal wireless transmitter that wired mics can be plugged into?
A plug-on transmitter would work for a dynamic microphone, but the KMS104 is a condenser.  You would need a plug-on transmitter that supplies +48V.  If you go with the Sennheiser SKP2000 model, you're looking at between $600-$800 for each transmitter depending on where you buy from.  Oh, and you get a big, fat block on the end of each mic.

Neumann does make a KMS104 head that can be put onto the Sennheiser SKM5000/5200 transmitters; they retail fro around $1,000 a pop.

Have you thought about a small drop snake for the mics?  Run that to a central location, patch the mics, and be done with it.
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Jordan Wolf
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Re: Some wireless questions (can I make my Neumann KMS 104 wireless, etc...)
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2011, 04:07:47 PM »

1. We LOVE our Neumann KMS 104 mics. 

Yes, they are great mics. 

I was providing for a small outdoor celebration in my neighborhood a couple of years ago and had a great blues guitarist/singer on stage.  He is very gear-savvy and usually brings his own stuff, but this was low-key, so he brought his little valve amp but no mic.  After his set he thanked me for setting him up with a 104 as this was his own personal mic choice.  When I pulled the foam wind-screen off to reveal the EV PL80a he couldn't believe it.

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Jonathan Melot

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Re: Some wireless questions...
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2011, 04:17:29 PM »

Hello all,

Yes, you raise valid concerns, and this is exactly why we are in a discovery phase at the moment!  I appreciate the input! With such a small stage, it is getting very cluttered and that is causing problems.  The cables create a hazard for the preaching staff as they are navigating their way around cables, etc... this effectivelyly pins our pastor into one spot on the stage.  Heck, even getting off the stage we've had worship team members (me) hook their foot on a looped cable and nearly pull a guitar off stage.  The microphone stands also get in the way the congregation on the side of the stage when they are looking at whomever is speaking.  So, we were looking at ways to (a) clean up the stage presentation, and (b) make the microphones more mobile so we could move them out of the sight lines (behind the preaching area) of the congregation without stretching more cable across the platform.

Thanks for the request for more info.  I should have included that in my previous post.  And as a not-so-savvy person in this whole world of sound reinforcement, I appreciate the ideas and input here.  Thanks!

I agree, wireless is not always the answer.  Currently we're running wireless IEM, and though somewhat of a hassle to get started with, it has proven to be a very very worthwhile investment for us. We're not set on any course of action, and can operate very well with the setup we have now.  We're just looking at options and investigating solutions at this point.  Please feel free to share your solutions!

Thanks all.

-Jon
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Some wireless questions...
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2011, 04:49:23 PM »

Sounds to me like you need to learn a bit of housekeeping.

Learn how to run cables so they are not a trip hazard. Learn what gaff tape is and how to use it.

Remember, the best wireless system in the world is still not as good as a wire.
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Re: Some wireless questions...
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2011, 04:53:48 PM »

Hello all,

Yes, you raise valid concerns, and this is exactly why we are in a discovery phase at the moment!  I appreciate the input! With such a small stage, it is getting very cluttered and that is causing problems.  The cables create a hazard for the preaching staff as they are navigating their way around cables, etc... this effectivelyly pins our pastor into one spot on the stage.  Heck, even getting off the stage we've had worship team members (me) hook their foot on a looped cable and nearly pull a guitar off stage.  The microphone stands also get in the way the congregation on the side of the stage when they are looking at whomever is speaking.  So, we were looking at ways to (a) clean up the stage presentation, and (b) make the microphones more mobile so we could move them out of the sight lines (behind the preaching area) of the congregation without stretching more cable across the platform.

Thanks for the request for more info.  I should have included that in my previous post.  And as a not-so-savvy person in this whole world of sound reinforcement, I appreciate the ideas and input here.  Thanks!

I agree, wireless is not always the answer.  Currently we're running wireless IEM, and though somewhat of a hassle to get started with, it has proven to be a very very worthwhile investment for us. We're not set on any course of action, and can operate very well with the setup we have now.  We're just looking at options and investigating solutions at this point.  Please feel free to share your solutions!

Thanks all.

-Jon

A lot of this can be taken care of by proper stage dressing and cable management.

1.  You can use rubber-backed carpet runners to cover any exposed cable runs.

2.  Make it a priority to train everyone involved in pulling their cables back out of the way as an integral part of their performance.  Don't leave them lying around.

3.  Use drop-snakes and proper length cables to begin with.

Item #2 should really be #1.......
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Karl Winkler

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Re: Some wireless questions (can I make my Neumann KMS 104 wireless, etc...)
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2011, 05:23:40 PM »

Hello all,

Our church has asked me to look into an entirely wireless stage setup.  I'm not the most savvy wireless guy, so I'd love to ask some questions....

It will be in your best interest to get wireless savvy. This is a good place to start. There are some online seminars - hopefully you checked out the one with James Stoffo on the 27th.

Quote
1. We LOVE our Neumann KMS 104 mics.  Is there a way to make those wireless?  Some sort of universal wireless transmitter that wired mics can be plugged into?

Yes - good sounding mic. Not for everyone of course, but on the right voices it is amazing. As others have pointed out, look into a plug-on transmitter that provides phantom power at 48 volts. The only two I know of are the Sennheiser 2000 and the Lectrosonics HM.

Quote
2. Also, if we move to wireless guitar systems, how the heck do we still have the ability to tune guitars onstage?  I know we could run a rtack tuner inline on the side of the stage, but there's not really a way to mute the signal for silent tuning right (without walking over to the tuner unit and hitting a button).  Pedal tuners are so convenient, but would they be useless with a wireless system?

-jon

I run a wireless on my guitar, and the way I route it is receiver>A-B box>A to Tuner, B to the rest of the guitar chain. This stuff is right on my pedal board. That way, when I click on the A/B box to route the signal to the tuner, the audio goes away. Then when I click again the audio is back, and the tuner is completely out of the circuit.
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Re: Some wireless questions (can I make my Neumann KMS 104 wireless, etc...)
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2011, 05:23:40 PM »


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