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[dakota.schappell]

Hello, I was wondering if I could some opinions on digital consoles? My church is looking upgrade and we are kind of stuck on what on console to get. Our options that we are choosing from are an Allen and Heath iLive t-112, Yamaha M7CL-48, Soundcraft Si 2, and a Digico SD9 (I am also looking at the SD8-24 or just the SD8, opinions on that too please?). Price is always something that’s good to keep low, and user friendly is also good, but not necessarily important. thanks for the help!
            Sincerely,
                       Dakota T. Schappell

[Brad Weber]

Can you tell us anything about the application?  Why did you include those specific models?  How experienced with digital consoles are the potential operators?  What do you consider a "low" price?  What input and output complement are you looking for?  Is this a direct analog console replacement or is a digital snake being considered?  Will the console tie to other systems or devices that require support of Aviom, EtherSound, Dante, MADI, ADAT, etc.?

[dakota.schappell]

Can you tell us anything about the application?  Why did you include those specific models?  How experienced with digital consoles are the potential operators?  What do you consider a "low" price?  What input and output complement are you looking for?  Is this a direct analog console replacement or is a digital snake being considered?  Will the console tie to other systems or devices that require support of Aviom, EtherSound, Dante, MADI, ADAT, etc.?

    Oh yes, Sorry I am very new to this forum thing. 
   We mainly use it for worship services and speech, our band is relatively large, and we are looking to expand the band as well.  Also we have the occasional Christmas and easter plays as well as a choir. So we need something that will be able to accommodate all of the mics with out having a sub-mixer. Almost all of them seem to be the most popular in the installed/HOW scene; I am welcome to other solutions! Well most of the people using are volunteers but very good learners, I am very educated with a handful of the consoles mentioned, and I am on my way to learning more( I am going to Full Sail University for Show Production).  We are looking for no less then 48 inputs, and output isn’t a huge issue. We are running an Aviom System for monitors, 3 EAW speakers for a “full” coverage of the room, as well as QSC 18’ subs. A direct analog replacement would be easiest however it isn’t a necessity.15,000 seems to be the lowest price we are getting, so id say 15k.  An aviom card would be nice but not a necessity.  Hope this helped! If not or need something explained better! Please ask! Any input is welcome!
   
      Sincerely,
         Dakota T. Schappell

[Brad Weber]

    Oh yes, Sorry I am very new to this forum thing. 
   We mainly use it for worship services and speech, our band is relatively large, and we are looking to expand the band as well.  Also we have the occasional Christmas and easter plays as well as a choir. So we need something that will be able to accommodate all of the mics with out having a sub-mixer. Almost all of them seem to be the most popular in the installed/HOW scene; I am welcome to other solutions! Well most of the people using are volunteers but very good learners, I am very educated with a handful of the consoles mentioned, and I am on my way to learning more( I am going to Full Sail University for Show Production).  We are looking for no less then 48 inputs, and output isn’t a huge issue. We are running an Aviom System for monitors, 3 EAW speakers for a “full” coverage of the room, as well as QSC 18’ subs. A direct analog replacement would be easiest however it isn’t a necessity.15,000 seems to be the lowest price we are getting, so id say 15k.  An aviom card would be nice but not a necessity.  Hope this helped! If not or need something explained better! Please ask! Any input is welcome!

That definitely helps.  Those might all be good options however, I don't see what is driving those particular options other than it possibly being what you used at Full Sail.  For example, you might find the A&H GL2800 analog console much more common in HOW/install applications than any of the consoles you noted and I don't see any specific criteria or goal noted that indicates that would not serve your needs while spending less than half as much.

Why the desire for a digital snake?  It sounds like you need to modify or expand your basic system infrastructure in order to support a greater number of inputs so is the digital snake a direct response to having assessed the existing conditions and having determined that you need a digital snake with inputs at the stage in order to accomplish that within the existing infrastructure?  Or is it simply that you believe you should have it?

How is your Aviom system configured?  You say that "output isn't a huge issue" but the Aviom alone could require 16 channels of output.  Also think about recording, ALS, audio to overflow areas, etc., if you're going to spend $15k plus on a console then you probably should consider what it might need to support in the near future and not just what you want now.

You don't mention what EAW mains or QSC subs are installed, but does the reference to three mains mean a L/C/R system or a mono center array or an exploded array?  Does the console need to support L/C/R mixing or provide any of the associated processing?

I have to say that if you are interested in a digital snake, are not that concerned about user friendliness and believe you can put a system together then this may be a potential application for a Software Audio Console.

[dakota.schappell]

That definitely helps.  Those might all be good options however, I don't see what is driving those particular options other than it possibly being what you used at Full Sail.  For example, you might find the A&H GL2800 analog console much more common in HOW/install applications than any of the consoles you noted and I don't see any specific criteria or goal noted that indicates that would not serve your needs while spending less than half as much.

Why the desire for a digital snake?  It sounds like you need to modify or expand your basic system infrastructure in order to support a greater number of inputs so is the digital snake a direct response to having assessed the existing conditions and having determined that you need a digital snake with inputs at the stage in order to accomplish that within the existing infrastructure?  Or is it simply that you believe you should have it?

How is your Aviom system configured?  You say that "output isn't a huge issue" but the Aviom alone could require 16 channels of output.  Also think about recording, ALS, audio to overflow areas, etc., if you're going to spend $15k plus on a console then you probably should consider what it might need to support in the near future and not just what you want now.

You don't mention what EAW mains or QSC subs are installed, but does the reference to three mains mean a L/C/R system or a mono center array or an exploded array?  Does the console need to support L/C/R mixing or provide any of the associated processing?

I have to say that if you are interested in a digital snake, are not that concerned about user friendliness and believe you can put a system together then this may be a potential application for a Software Audio Console.

Ok, I see your point on how the digital board could be a slight over kill in the price range. However we don't have an FX rack or multiple graphic EQs ( are the multiple EQs necessary? no. A nice feature none the less) so to buy all the gear thats packed into these consoles plus the console, it could cost near the same, and take up a lot more room.

I said the digital snake isn't a necessity, as the Si2 and the M7 have the input on the back the of the console allowing us to not have to run a digital snake. However we aren't opposed to it.

Well ok the line could be an issue, you are right, sorry. I was thinking of using an Aviom card. Multi tracking would awesome but not necessary. Audio to overflow areas is a must though! Excellent point! Our church just started our "expand" campaign the beginning of this year, so have big plans for our worship team, dramas, etc..

I didn't mention what there models are cause of the top of my head I don't remember. L/C/R would be amazing! thats the set-up we have, but thats not how it is currently set up. I believe its mono out to a QSC amp and then out to the speakers where it is daisy chained to there speakers. not the best way.

That software audio console is pretty neat! however it doesn't seem like it would be very practical. Thanks for showing it though!

[Kent Thompson]

Hello, I was wondering if I could some opinions on digital consoles? My church is looking upgrade and we are kind of stuck on what on console to get. Our options that we are choosing from are an Allen and Heath iLive t-112, Yamaha M7CL-48, Soundcraft Si 2, and a Digico SD9 (I am also looking at the SD8-24 or just the SD8, opinions on that too please?). Price is always something that’s good to keep low, and user friendly is also good, but not necessarily important. thanks for the help!
            Sincerely,
                       Dakota T. Schappell

There will not be any slouches amongst any of those consoles and you will get a lot of different opinions depending on what people are use to. So really it is the one that closest meets your needs that should get the thumbs up.


I have worked on 2 of those the Yamaha and the iLive (which I mix on normally) to me both have their places. Almost all of them have aviom add on cards for connect ability as well.


One curious omission is the avid console. A lot of people seems to like it and I admit the one I was exposed to sounded good.


One thing I would consider is service in case something goes wrong because it will and at the most in opportune times. Having someplace local to take it in for repairs is  big +

[Justin Bartlett]

Hello, I was wondering if I could some opinions on digital consoles? My church is looking upgrade and we are kind of stuck on what on console to get. Our options that we are choosing from are an Allen and Heath iLive t-112, Yamaha M7CL-48, Soundcraft Si 2, and a Digico SD9 (I am also looking at the SD8-24 or just the SD8, opinions on that too please?). Price is always something that’s good to keep low, and user friendly is also good, but not necessarily important. thanks for the help!
            Sincerely,
                       Dakota T. Schappell

As Kent noted, the Avid SC48 would be a quality addition to your options, especially if there's an existing copper snake (it does not include a digital snake).  I have spent time on both the M7CL and the iLive T112.  Overall I like the iLive better, but the M7 certainly has its place, and it does have some advantages.  The DiGiCo has some impressive features (multiband compression and dynamic eq, for example), but the SC48 can do that with plugins.  The Soundcraft Si stuff looks awkward to me; I'm not sure the layout is very user-friendly or volunteer friendly, though I have not mixed on one.

But really these are all quality options; the best choice will depend largely on the specifics of your application.

[reidwwall]

Yamaha CL5.  They are cheap. They have the remote stage box.  They are SUPER Volunteer friendly.  You can put an Aviom Card in it.  They are reliable.

Supposedly it sounds BETTER than a 5D running at 96K, which means it will sound better than any of the avid stuff and be easer to use.
The big sound craft stuff isn't church volunteer friendly.....

[Brian Larson]

Yamaha CL5.  They are cheap. They have the remote stage box.  They are SUPER Volunteer friendly.  You can put an Aviom Card in it.  They are reliable.

These came out, what,
Last week? It's way too soon to be saying that they're "super volunteer friendly" and "reliable".

And how cheap are they? I've yet to see a street price.

[Brad Weber]

Yamaha CL5.  They are cheap. They have the remote stage box.  They are SUPER Volunteer friendly.  You can put an Aviom Card in it.  They are reliable.

If they need 48 inputs, would the CL1 be a better fit when it's available than the CL5?  I guess "cheap" depends on your reference, but they noted a $15k goal and MSRP for a CL5 with a single Rio3224-D is right at $36k, to get up to 48 inputs you may be looking at close to $41k or more, which means a 'street' price that is probably more than some of the other options noted and likely greater than the around $15k goal.  The CL series consoles do not include a stage box, they are intended to be used with the Rio3224-D or Rio1608-D remote I/O boxes but those are independent products.  The CL5 is just starting to ship so although volunteer acceptance and reliability are likely to be good, I don't think that either can yet be judged.

Supposedly it sounds BETTER than a 5D running at 96K, which means it will sound better than any of the avid stuff and be easer to use.

I'm considering several of the consoles noted, including the Yamaha CL, for a HoW project and it is just like most installed system projects in that there are specifics involved in each application that may make one console or another have advantages or disadvantages in that particular situation.  However, there are also always subjective aspects to consider and opinions on those can be very helpful, I just like to know the basis of such coments and thus am curious as to the basis for the impressions noted.
 
You want the mixer to sound good, after all, you can pretty much only go downhill from what you start with, but I think people often get caught up in details that have little impact on the actual result and in doing so sometimes forget to address some of the more important 'big picture' factors.  The reality is that factors such as the speaker system, system tuning, room acoustics, background noise levels, etc. may have a lot more impact on what people hear, so I would avoid getting caught up in worrying about fine points of the console's audio performance unless you believe that is really going to matter in terms of what the listeners hear in actual use.

The big sound craft stuff isn't church volunteer friendly.....

Does "the big sound craft stuff" include the Vi series or are you referencing only the Si+ series?  What are the specific aspects that you feel make the Soundcraft not volunteer friendly or the Yamaha CL volunteer friendly?

[ProSoundWeb Community]