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[Karl Stringer]

Hi
Could I have some advice please?
Our Church has an Allen & Heath idr4 DSP mixer and ev sx80 mains.
The system is controlled by a PL10.
We have 3 Shure wireless mics (two lavalier, one handheld) and one AKG c1000s fixed mic.

The installer (a few years ago) set eq levels in the idr4 for a mic combination that we no longer use. He has now retired.

I can set parametric eq levels for each input and output using the idr software manager on my laptop. Currently the main speakers have eq applied, as do all of the mics. I know that I need to change the eq settings on each of the mics (ring them out)  but I'm not sure why the installer applied eq on the output to the mains as well. Shall I clear the settings first on the mains before I ring out the mics?

Thanks

[Jordan Wolf]

...I'm not sure why the installer applied eq on the output to the mains as well. Shall I clear the settings first on the mains before I ring out the mics?

I would leave the output settings alone.  Typically the installer will use those settings to smooth out the frequency response of the loudspeaker(s).  The idea is that, since the loudspeakers have a "flat" response (though never actually true), any signal sent through them will retain its original characteristics and remain uncolored.

Of course,  the installer may also have set it up to have a boost in the low frequencies or in the highs, as well.  No one except them will know unless more information is provided.

Either way, I say leave it alone.  Ring out the mics using the channel strip parametrics (and be glad you have them).

[Lee Douglas]

I'm not sure why the installer applied eq on the output to the mains as well.

In a perfect world, the eq on the outputs will have been set for the room and not the mics.  Channel eq should be sufficient for any mic changes.  If the room and its contents has changed drastically you then may need to re-address your main eq.

Edit:  Or what Jordan said!   

[Karl Stringer]

Picture of the Lavalier eq setting


nb the wireless handheld (Shure PG58) and the wired AKG c1000s are both flat.

Finally the EV sx80 eq setting

[Frank DeWitt]

Hi
Could I have some advice please?
Our Church has an Allen & Heath idr4 DSP mixer and ev sx80 mains.
The system is controlled by a PL10.
We have 3 Shure wireless mics (two lavalier, one handheld) and one AKG c1000s fixed mic.

The installer (a few years ago) set eq levels in the idr4 for a mic combination that we no longer use. He has now retired.

I can set parametric eq levels for each input and output using the idr software manager on my laptop. Currently the main speakers have eq applied, as do all of the mics. I know that I need to change the eq settings on each of the mics (ring them out)  but I'm not sure why the installer applied eq on the output to the mains as well. Shall I clear the settings first on the mains before I ring out the mics?

Thanks

Usually the EQ on the output is to tune the room also called voice the room or EQ the room.  The intent is to make a known source such as pink noise or often a selection of CDs sound the same in your room as it would through headphones .

This setting would change only if there were major changes made to the room, such as new pews or new and different wall treatments or a redesign of the platform.

While you can ring out your mics I like to listen to what is going to be miked, Up close to the person or instrument, then mic them / it, then apply EQ as needed to get that original sound. 

Many people use lots of EQ.  I like to use just a little bit,  Many of my vocalist are not EQed at all.   I am not sure there is a right or wrong,  Just one opinion here.

Frank

[Karl Stringer]

If the room and its contents has changed drastically you then may need to re-address your main eq.

Edit:  Or what Jordan said!

Thanks very much both of you - you replied as I was uploading those screenshots!
The interior hasn't changed much since it was built in 1840, so i'll leave the output eq as it is and just ring out the mics and see how we get on.

The reason for me wanting to change the settings is that we get feedback very easily when the gain is up enough to be heard in the rear pews. After reading much advice here and on the internet in general, I have instructed the Vicar on where to place the lav - it is now central on his chest rather than to the side. This improved things enormously but does occasionally give a little feedback. The handheld PG58 is never a problem. It is just the fixed AKG c1000s (on the lectern for Gospel readings) that causes me a headache!

[Tom Young]

Hi
Could I have some advice please?
Our Church has an Allen & Heath idr4 DSP mixer and ev sx80 mains.
The system is controlled by a PL10.
We have 3 Shure wireless mics (two lavalier, one handheld) and one AKG c1000s fixed mic.

The installer (a few years ago) set eq levels in the idr4 for a mic combination that we no longer use. He has now retired.

I can set parametric eq levels for each input and output using the idr software manager on my laptop. Currently the main speakers have eq applied, as do all of the mics. I know that I need to change the eq settings on each of the mics (ring them out)  but I'm not sure why the installer applied eq on the output to the mains as well. Shall I clear the settings first on the mains before I ring out the mics?

Thanks

In general; loudspeakers are designed to exhibit smooth frqeuency response either in an anechoic chamber (look it up) or using a semi-anechoic computer measurement system. The manufacturer's designers also listen to them. But no matter who makes them and how much they cost, once they are installed in a space and with other speakers, they behave differently than they did back "in the lab". So no installation is complete without very careful on-site measurement and what we call "optimization". The goal is to get the system back to smooth response (or as smooth as you can achieve), which equates to intelligibility and freedom from feedback, etc.

Let me reiterate: the loudspeakers *must* be measured and optimized and this is a very complex process. Do not defeat, erase or alter the loudspeaker system equaization unless you are absolutely certain there is very good reason to do this or you bring someone in who knows what they are doing.

Input/source (microphone) equalization is an additional step which is not done until the loudspeaker system has been addressed sufficiently.  It is done for subjective "voicing" and may also include feedback reduction. So if you have changed microphones it is likely that you need different equalization for the new mic's.

Showing the equalization that has been applied (screen shots) means nothing, frankly. The equalization, if done correctly, is based on what is going on in your space and with the speaker *system* as it has been installed.

[Karl Stringer]

Do not defeat, erase or alter the loudspeaker system equaization unless you are absolutely certain there is very good reason to do this or you bring someone in who knows what they are doing.

I won't alter anything!

Input/source (microphone) equalization is an additional step which is not done until the loudspeaker system has been addressed sufficiently.  It is done for subjective "voicing" and may also include feedback reduction. So if you have changed microphones it is likely that you need different equalization for the new mic's.

Yes, they have all changed.

Thank you for your advice.

[Frank DeWitt]

Edit:  Or what Jordan said!
[/quote]
 It is just the fixed AKG c1000s (on the lectern for Gospel readings) that causes me a headache!
[/quote]

You might un screw the top of your AKG 1000 and see if it has the PCC 1000 cap.
http://www.akg.com/site/products/powerslave,id,104,pid,104,nodeid,2,_language,EN.html

It changes the polar pattern from cardioid to hypercardioid.  If it isn't there it is probably still in the box the mic came in.

The other thing that will help is if you can get the mic closer to the person speaking.

I had this trouble with our pulpit mic when a guest speaker would not move it to adjust for there height.  I finally put a Crown PCC 160 on the pulpit and I use that as a backup.  It works quite well, but needs a lot of EQ.

Frank

[Jordan Wolf]

Karl,

Where are the loudspeakers mounted/flown in relation to the lectern?  They should (in an ideal situation) be in front of and above the lectern so that any microphones in use do not "hear" themselves...which leads to feedback.

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