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Author Topic: Glue Only?  (Read 10215 times)

Ray Buksa

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Glue Only?
« on: January 25, 2011, 07:09:02 pm »

 I've been working on a sub project and was wandering if anyone had built with glue only Joints.

 I've tried to take apart previous boxes I've put together with glue and screws, and it always ends in destruction of the joint.

 The glues are stronger than the wood.

 All these joints are quite tight by design no butt joints. Mostly dados or some combo. Clean well managed cuts.
 
 So how does a glue only joint hold up?  No cheapo glues here either
 
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Glue Only?
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2011, 09:43:18 pm »

Yes. It works fine, although biscuits work even better. I'm not a fan of using screws in speaker cabs. I don't like all the holes to fill, and I always seem to bite into a screw with a router bit later on. I like biscuits, or just using real joinery and good glue and plenty of clamps.
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Ray Buksa

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Re: Glue Only?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2011, 08:03:02 pm »

 My biggest two reasons for wanting to do this without fasteners is as u stated. No holes to fill and I also wack them with the router.

 Usually I end up hitting fasteners with the router, when making quarter rounds on the edges.
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Craig Leerman

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Re: Glue Only?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2011, 06:50:21 pm »

I've been working on a sub project and was wandering if anyone had built with glue only Joints.

 I've tried to take apart previous boxes I've put together with glue and screws, and it always ends in destruction of the joint.

 The glues are stronger than the wood.

 All these joints are quite tight by design no butt joints. Mostly dados or some combo. Clean well managed cuts.
 
 So how does a glue only joint hold up?  No cheapo glues here either

The main problem with glue only joints is that you have to hold the pieces together until the glue dries.  If you have a lot of bar clamps, or strap clamps, then you should be OK.

I use screws along with glue because it's easier for me than using clamps.

One thing I do is use TRIM SCREWS on some project, insted of the traditional wood or Drywall screws.

Trim Screws have smaller heads, and provide a lot of holding power, but don't leave a big hole to fill, perfect for trim pieces or cabinet and furniture construction.



 
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Loren Jones

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Re: Glue Only?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2011, 08:10:10 pm »

Glue only joints should be plenty strong.  The problem is that using just plain butt joints with glue only is a huge pain getting everything to line up while the glue dries.  But if you are using dadoes or rabbetts as you said you are then you will not have problems with that.  I would definitely trust the strength of the glue only joints.  Simple butt joints using pocket hole screws is a very nice way to make assembly very easy and avoid the need for lots of clamps and avoid the need to cut more advanced joints.  The screws are all inside so don't require filling and shouldn't present a problem as far as doing your quarter rounds either.  I just built some cabs using pocket hole screws and was very impressed with them.

Take care,
Loren Jones
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BrianAbington

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Re: Glue Only?
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2011, 08:28:37 pm »

Back in my car audio days I saw a couple of glue only enclosures come apart. Granted this was smooth MDF joints and Elmers wood glue. My enclosures were always heavy and about half the weight was from coarse dry wall screws.

I still use screws in everything I build to me it just makes it more solid in case something is dropped.

If I am cutting after the panels are put together and the screws will be close to were I am cutting I wait untill after I cut to install screws in that immediate area.

I feel screws are worth the weight for the extra strength. Even if it requires a bit of filler.

If you want to avoid screws as long as you use something really strong like PL premium you should be okay even if you drop your enclosure while lifting it up on a stack.  ???
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Glue Only?
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2011, 09:04:04 pm »

You should clarify; Was it the glue that came apart, or the mdf itself? I've destroyed a few MDF cabinets and the glue always holds tight while the MDF itself delaminates and tears at the joints.

In my experience MDF is a poor choice of materials when you are talking about a cabinet that will be moved a lot. Even cheap plywood is a better choice for PA cabs.

MDF is great for prototyping and building home hi-fi cabinets though. Its very easy to work with and is very uniform and non-resonant.
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BrianAbington

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Re: Glue Only?
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2011, 10:37:14 pm »

I've seen the glue come apart before. I've also seen the MDF delaminate.

I think that if your going to line-x your enclosures then MDF is a good choice, but if you need light weight and plan to just vinyl or carpet the cabs then birch is probably best.

I'd still add some screws though.
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Art Welter

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Re: Glue Only?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2011, 11:26:12 am »

I've been working on a sub project and was wandering if anyone had built with glue only Joints.

 I've tried to take apart previous boxes I've put together with glue and screws, and it always ends in destruction of the joint.

 The glues are stronger than the wood.

 All these joints are quite tight by design no butt joints. Mostly dados or some combo. Clean well managed cuts.
 
 So how does a glue only joint hold up?  No cheapo glues here either
Glue can be far stronger than wood, and you don't need exotic stuff to achieve that, regular yellow wood glue is fine.
That said, cabinets used on the road are subject to the plywood itself delaminating or breaking with the grain at corners, where stress is concentrated.
I've had biscuit jointed stuff fall apart, but never had screwed cabinets using good plywood fall apart under normal use and abuse.
For the above reasons, screws are still needed.
Using a pocket jig and screwing from the inside can make rounding over the edges less subject to destroying router bits.
I avoid that problem by rounding over individual panels before putting in the screws.

Art Welter
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duane massey

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Re: Glue Only?
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2011, 02:52:08 am »

I use screws and glue, mostly butt joints and normally glue blocks as well. Everything I build is big, heavy, and complicated, and clamps are just not a practical solution for me. Yep, filling the holes is a drag, and getting the screws to countersink without tearing up the wood is tricky, but the assembly is much faster for a one-man operation.

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Duane Massey
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Ray Buksa

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Re: Glue Only?
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2011, 12:49:16 am »

 The only joint I have can recall coming apart was glued and screwed. That however (the screws and glue) was not cause of its coming apart it was a poorly designed butt joint with little or no support.

 The last boxes I made 2 yrs ago used simple brads from a nail gun and where clamped and glued also. They've been in the rain and dropped more than once. The boxes used baltic birch and rabbit joints. They still look great.

 It did add some rub rails or runners on the bottoms to take the abuse. I made the runners from compost wood decking. That stuff has taken a pounding.



 
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Tim Talbot

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Re: Glue Only?
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2011, 04:27:28 pm »

When we have had cabinets built for us they have always been screwed and glued, to be fair it cant take much longer to screw as well can it ??????

Steve Anderson

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Re: Glue Only?
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2011, 01:21:34 am »

Slightly off-topic...

PL Premium seems to be a Loctite product. It is not one that Loctite sell in Australia. Does anyone know if there is an equivalent from another manufacturer??

Cheers...
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duane massey

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Re: Glue Only?
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2011, 04:24:54 pm »

I've had good results with almost any yellow "carpenter's" glue. If you secure the joint well enough (clamps, screws, etc) it will be satisfactory. It is a good idea to try out your choices IF you are building a fair amount of cabinets.
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Duane Massey
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George Dougherty

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Re: Glue Only?
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2011, 12:38:28 am »

I've built a fair number of cabinets and the expanding poly glues are great to fill in any potential leaks and build airtight joints.  Yellow glue is slightly stronger than the poly glues, but you either need immaculate finish work or sealer after the fact.  Dado'd joints help there.
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Glue Only?
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2011, 05:44:55 pm »

I use screws and 1x1 at all joints as well as bracing front to back, side to side and stringers where needed. Tightbond 2 glue.

Jeremy McNichol

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Re: Glue Only?
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2011, 04:52:02 pm »

Glued and srewwed is best , that aside 18 gauge Brad nails really help out when gluing
especially when you put them on an angle. Big plus as welll they don't kill the router bit.
 
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Sheldon Harris

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Re: Glue Only?
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2011, 10:09:08 pm »

I've been working on a sub project and was wandering if anyone had built with glue only Joints.

 I've tried to take apart previous boxes I've put together with glue and screws, and it always ends in destruction of the joint.

 The glues are stronger than the wood.

 All these joints are quite tight by design no butt joints. Mostly dados or some combo. Clean well managed cuts.
 
 So how does a glue only joint hold up?  No cheapo glues here either


used many types of glues. lately, epoxy or west system, when clamped impossible to break in the joint. inspite of all that, i still use screws. always! boxes with both stand up better when dropped from a height. and i'm not talking the regular 4' ground stacked height. in my time i have unfortunately seen a lot of stuff fall
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John Livings

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Re: Glue Only?
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2011, 01:20:10 pm »

You should clarify; Was it the glue that came apart, or the mdf itself? I've destroyed a few MDF cabinets and the glue always holds tight while the MDF itself delaminates and tears at the joints.

In my experience MDF is a poor choice of materials when you are talking about a cabinet that will be moved a lot. Even cheap plywood is a better choice for PA cabs.

MDF is great for prototyping and building home hi-fi cabinets though. Its very easy to work with and is very uniform and non-resonant.

+1 MDF is a poor choice for almost anything, Elmer's "Carpenters Wood Glue" is great.

No "Butt Joints" unless you use Screws.

Regards,  John
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Charlie Zureki

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Re: Glue Only?
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2011, 02:37:45 pm »

  Hello,

   Screws or air driven staples or nails make the assembly of a cabinet much easier, when they are used to hold the work pieces stationary while the glue or adhesives bond.

    But, once an industrial glue is set, there is no need for a screw, nail or staple, and these fasteners add no additional strength to the cabinet joint.  The wood will break before the glued joint will break, and if the wood breaks, the mechanical fasteners won't stop the damage.

   Cheers,
   Hammer

   
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