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[John Fiorello]

Sweet new forum setup   I like it already!

Well, I've been out of the loop for a while, working on the upgrades to our facility, but I'm back (hopefully for good) with a question...


We're getting the iLive t112/48 system with the Aviom card.  The aviom card also has 24 channels out via light pipe.

What I'd like to do is send those 24 channels over to a computer, out to a mixer, and then to our video feed for our recordings.

That part seems easy to me, just converting the light pipe to analog, plug into our old mixer (32ch yammy) and then take the main outs and send them to our recording device.

But here's what I'd ALSO like to do.  I want to be able to record all 24 tracks at the same time so I can come back to the recorded service later, re-send the audio to each individual channel and let audio trainees learn how to mix the service (while not mixing in a live service).

In my head, that means that I need to assign each of the 24 channels to a single output, each output needs to go to each channel on the analog board, and then we listen to speakers coming off the main outs.

I figured that the Presonus Digimax FS http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=13 units (3 of them) would be what I need, and would be the best bang for the buck, but I could be wrong.

So my questions are the following:

1- is this hooked up right?
2- will the digimax do what I'm looking for it to do?
3- is there a better solution to accomplish what I'm trying to do?


As far as software goes, I was just assuming we'd use studioOne (lite version probably bundled with the digimax units) or cubase or something similar.


What say all you smart people?



Thanks!


JF

[Arnold B. Krueger]

Sweet new forum setup   I like it already!

We're getting the iLive t112/48 system with the Aviom card.  The aviom card also has 24 channels out via light pipe.

What I'd like to do is send those 24 channels over to a computer, out to a mixer, and then to our video feed for our recordings.

But here's what I'd ALSO like to do.  I want to be able to record all 24 tracks at the same time so I can come back to the recorded service later, re-send the audio to each individual channel and let audio trainees learn how to mix the service (while not mixing in a live service).

In my head, that means that I need to assign each of the 24 channels to a single output, each output needs to go to each channel on the analog board, and then we listen to speakers coming off the main outs.

I figured that the Presonus Digimax FS http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=13 units (3 of them) would be what I need, and would be the best bang for the buck, but I could be wrong.

I think that One (1) M-Audio Profire Lightbridge, which connects up to 32 channels to a computer with one < $500 box would be a far better value.

[John Fiorello]

I think that One (1) M-Audio Profire Lightbridge, which connects up to 32 channels to a computer with one < $500 box would be a far better value.

Hi Arnold!


Right, I would need some sort of device to convert from light pipe to computer for the recording part, but then that audio needs to come back out analog (since I don't have light pipe inputs in my sound board).

So, if I used a lightbridge, I'd still want to mix on the desk live, and mix later from what I've recorded via multitrack.



Now, if this throws a wrench into the mix, I found out that the digimax fs units (which allowed us to get firewire to analog before and after the computer) have been discontinued by Presonus.


So, another option would be to record to protools 9 (no longer native) with some sort of interface that also gives direct outs/analog outs from the software.  Maybe an apogee symphony type of thing, but hopefully cheaper (since we don't need quite that high of quality, just the functionality).


Any other ideas?


JF

[Arnold B. Krueger]

Right, I would need some sort of device to convert from light pipe to computer for the recording part, but then that audio needs to come back out analog (since I don't have light pipe inputs in my sound board).

If I understand your config, you have an IDR-48 DSP chassis with has 24 analog outputs.  How many of them are going to be used for the main system?  I don't think that you will be using more than half of them for the main system itself. How many of the 24 analog outputs will be free for to output to the second mixer?   I think that you have at least 8 analog outputs for routing to your second mixer.

You can obtain up to 16 analog outputs via  the Aviom system using their AN-16. Normally most or all of the Aviom channels would be patched as direct outs from the iLive. Since the Aviom system is hooked in digitally, the AN-16 outputs are going to be about as good as outputs from the IDR 48. 

You can also use optical splitters on the lightpipe outputs of the iLive M-MMO module. The second lightpipe from each ADAT output could be converted to analog using Behringer ADA 8000's, at about $250 per 8 channels.

So, if I used a lightbridge, I'd still want to mix on the desk live, and mix later from what I've recorded via multitrack.

I think that many of us would just make the second mix on the computer using DAW software, and forget about the second console unless the video mix has to be done in real time, concurrently. If you really need the second console, see the options I mentioned above.

[John Fiorello]

You can obtain up to 16 analog outputs via  the Aviom system using their AN-16. Normally most or all of the Aviom channels would be patched as direct outs from the iLive. Since the Aviom system is hooked in digitally, the AN-16 outputs are going to be about as good as outputs from the IDR 48. 

Thanks Arnold.  Yes, the idr48 has 24 outs, half (approx) are free for direct outs (we'll use 8 ).  The Aviom card has 40 outs total.  16 will go to the aviom distro, the other 24 are heading to the broadcast feed.

So, the 24 adat plus the 8 analog are what we'll be receiving at the 2nd console.  Our rep suggested that instead of trying to do outboard equipment, we should just purchase another control surface for the iLive.

It would run off the same DSP, and could use a MADI card to multi track to and from the DAW.  Obviously, that option is the best, but it's also a bit pricey at just over 10k.

I'm kinda amazed that I can't find any outboard options that aren't either b*ringer or Apogee, seems like the two extremes...

And the b*ringer unit still doesn't get me to my DAW without another device accepting ADAT and analog inputs, right?  It only gives me my D/A conversion and direct outs.


I'm doing some more searching tonight, I'll let you know what I find... I'm open to any other ideas though


JF

[Kent Thompson]

Hearback also makes some boxes that convert the hearback outputs to adat as well so you have those outputs you can use as well with the converter boxes which can give you a LOT of digital outs. Why not just take a couple of matrix outputs from the idr48 and use an editor session to mix them for the video.
 
On a second surface currently you can only connect one surface per idr. To use two surfaces you need to have at least 2 idr which then eliminates your mmo card because you would have to put an ethersound, madi, Rocknet, M-Ace or Dante when it becomes available into the B-slot.

[John Fiorello]

which can give you a LOT of digital outs.

Thanks Kent!  I hear what you're saying.  But my issue isn't about a lack of outputs (I know I have enough), it's about being able to multitrack the different formats at the same time while also mixing them live.

If I was using all 32 channels via lightpipe or all 32 via analog, I think this would be a much easier setup.

Maybe that's how I should look at it.  Take the 24 adat and convert to direct outs, then take all 32 and send them to an interface that gives me direct outs (like 4 firestudios or something)...


JF

[John Fiorello]

Take the 24 adat and convert to direct outs, then take all 32 and send them to an interface that gives me direct outs (like 4 firestudios or something)...

Of course the caveat to that is what the latency difference will be between that straight signal and the adat conversion...


JF

[Kent Thompson]

I personally have not done this but, there are people that are doing this. A search of the iLive forms show this but, it is a good question one which I don't have an answer.
 
An ada8000 seems to be the most cost effective way to take the digital outputs(echoing Arnolds suggestion) of the idr for your video feed (You could use the hearback outputs with a converter so you will not tie up any of your other adat outputs. Just use an editor session to mix, send your other adat outputs to another computer to record. You are still going to be using a matrix like this but it will be assigned to the outputs of the ada8000.
 
There are some multi tracking programs that will allow connection to more than one audio device so you could install more than one sound card and route outputs to the second card to send to video. Then use a control surface that works with that software and you basically have a second console.

[John Fiorello]

Thanks again Kent,

Help me understand what I'm missing.  I can't seem to get it straight in my head.  If I use the ada800 to do my d/a conversion for the live mixing, I still need to get the light pipe to the computer for recording, right?  I would take the converted (direct outs) from the 8000 straight to the board for 24 of the 32 channels... how would I get the other 8 to the computer and the board?

Would I convert them to light pipe and then look for a light pipe card that takes 32 inputs?

Even if I had a 002 I wouldn't have enough adat inputs to accept 4 or 4 cables, right?


Are we saying that an A&H zed mixer or a presonus studio live (which doesn't have 32 channels) is the only option along with the ada8000's to get all 32 channels to analog?

JF

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