Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Dave Neale]

Does anyone do this when mixing monitors from FOH? I can see a few problems like confusion with FOH and pissing off punters...

I've actually convinced myself it's a bad idea.... uuummm.... may as well ask the question anyway....

Most (not all) of the situations where I mix monitors from FOH are small enough that I can just take a quick run up to side stage and have a listen once I have the house mix in a good place. 

If I have the luxury of a sound check I always take several walks around the stage regardless of the FOH distance.

[Dave Dermont]

Yes, I have done this, it works. Nothing replaces the ability to accurately judge what the musician on stage is actually hearing. Headphones can work if you really know what the wedges sound like beforehand.

It is amazing to me how often I see a monitoring setup that has no cue or a different speaker than what the people on stage are using, or have the speaker on a case lid. I don't get it..

Try it! Just don't piss off the audience in the process.

John


How can you tell what the wedge sounds like at FOH with the mains going? A wedge at FOH has no more relationship to the wedge onstage than a good pair of cans does. I liked in Dave Rat's recent article how he talked about using cans as a consistant point of reference for all parts of the system.

During sound check, you can turn off the mains and hear the wedge. You can then get a proper Wedge-to-Cans reference too.

People use improper technique for various reasons. Some of them include:

They don't know how to do it right.

The gear they have can't do it right.

It's set up that way, and changing it is impractical or not allowed.

They don't care.

A combination of any or all of the above.

[Chris Hindle]

Does anyone do this when mixing monitors from FOH? I can see a few problems like confusion with FOH and pissing off punters...

I've actually convinced myself it's a bad idea.... uuummm.... may as well ask the question anyway....

Most of the answers seem to "miss the point"
I have tried it in the past, but found cans to be a better "solution"
1) At FOH, I am anywhere from 70 to 150 feet from the stage.
2) With matching wedge and amp, yes, I hear exactly WHAT IS COMING OUT OF Superstar's WEDGE. That is the problem.
3) I do NOT hear what Superstar hears. He/she is 5 feet away from Animal on drums, and RokStar on lead guitar.
4) There is no way I can hear what Superstar hears, unless I am on the deck beside him/her.
5) On a monitor board, it is no different. Cue wedges are accepted/expected, but points 2 to 4 remain. I am just closer to the action.

Solution - Band on IEM's with me having a matching set, would give the best (not exact) representation of what is going on.

[John Schimpf]

Does anyone do this when mixing monitors from FOH? I can see a few problems like confusion with FOH and pissing off punters...

I've actually convinced myself it's a bad idea.... uuummm.... may as well ask the question anyway....

Yes, I have done this, it works. Nothing replaces the ability to accurately judge what the musician on stage is actually hearing. Headphones can work if you really know what the wedges sound like beforehand.

It is amazing to me how often I see a monitoring setup that has no cue or a different speaker than what the people on stage are using, or have the speaker on a case lid. I don't get it..

Try it! Just don't piss off the audience in the process.

John

How can you tell what the wedge sounds like at FOH with the mains going? A wedge at FOH has no more relationship to the wedge onstage than a good pair of cans does. I liked in Dave Rat's recent article how he talked about using cans as a consistant point of reference for all parts of the system.

Right, like I said, if you know what the wedges sound like in the first place then headphones would be fine, otherwise they would be pretty useless IMHO.

Why can't you hear the wedge at FOH with the mains on? Obviously this is a hypothetical situation, but I can't think of many situations where this would not work.

John

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

So you're trying to do monitors from FOH with a board that has no cue jack and no way to solo the auxes.  I think the monitor situation is the least of your concerns.  You should keep looking in dumpsters until you find a better board......

I don't know what prompted that rude comment, but apparently you felt it was necessary.

FYI, I run monitors from stage-side with a monitor mixer that can indeed cue all mixes. I also use the same model wedge and amp as the ones on stage. But, thanks for your help anyway.

Rude, perhaps, but real... except for the dumpster diving part.  One can pay full retail for inadequate products.

Dick produces live broadcast feeds & recordings in addition to live sound reinforcement, and has been doing so since Marconi's spark gaps.  While he may be a bit coarse, he's spot on.  Don't take it personally unless, as they say, the shoe fits.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

Dragging up this thread for an additional if peripheral comment.

Found in a dumpster today:

Fully functional Crown ComTech 400 with CLP PIP card.

[Jay Barracato]

Why can't you hear the wedge at FOH with the mains on?

John

I didn't mean that the wedge wouldn't be making noise that is reaching your ears. I meant that you would not be able to distinquish the wedge as a separate source unless it was significantly different from the FOH in either level or timing. I still don't buy the argument that you need the same wedge as the artist when you are listening to it under very different conditions.

Dave's comment about using it during a sound check with the FOH turned off is far closer to the mark, but I am still inclined to move my big, overweight self up to the stage to listen to the artists wedge in place if there is something I can't identify with the headphones.

My whole monitoring strategy is centered around getting consistant mixes in the cans. If I know what the artists desires sound like in my cans, I really don't need to know what they are hearing onstage. So once again, I am not as concerned with absolute sound quality in the headphones as extreme isolation so I can hear what is in the cans separate from any other sound sources.

[Gordon Brinton]

I don't know what prompted that rude comment, but apparently you felt it was necessary.

FYI, I run monitors from stage-side with a monitor mixer that can indeed cue all mixes. I also use the same model wedge and amp as the ones on stage. But, thanks for your help anyway.


Rude, perhaps, but real... except for the dumpster diving part.  One can pay full retail for inadequate products.

Dick produces live broadcast feeds & recordings in addition to live sound reinforcement, and has been doing so since Marconi's spark gaps.  While he may be a bit coarse, he's spot on.  Don't take it personally unless, as they say, the shoe fits.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc


Dragging up this thread for an additional if peripheral comment.

Found in a dumpster today:

Fully functional Crown ComTech 400 with CLP PIP card.

Nice. I've never gone dumpster diving before, but even if I did, I wouldn't know where to look. Your dumpster must be outside of a music store or musical instrument flea market. The one behind my local drug store is never going to have goods like that.

[ProSoundWeb Community]