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Author Topic: Speaker recommendation please!!  (Read 30045 times)

Gary Creely

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Re: Speaker recommendation please!!
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2011, 02:25:56 pm »

Danny Ryu wrote on Thu, 06 January 2011 13:20


By the way, can you recommend any microphone cable for future reference?



Do you mean a premade cable to go from the wall plate to the microphone?

If so rapco or whirlwind make good cables, and I prefer black nuetrick ends.
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Gary Creely
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Brad Weber

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Re: Speaker recommendation please!!
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2011, 03:58:00 pm »

Gary Creely wrote on Thu, 06 January 2011 12:43

Danny Ryu wrote on Thu, 06 January 2011 11:38

I thought the shield cable, I could use that as ground.
If I use this as a microphone cable, It will not work? or you mean, is this bad cable?




I looked closer at the cable and although you likely would be able to use the spiral shield as the ground, I would still recommend getting the correct cable. Besides the ground, it is also a rubberized jacket that makes it take up more room, and more difficult to pull. for the small cost I would get the right stuff. It will make the soldering go quicker as well.

It is not that that cable is bad, just not the best choice for your application.

Spiral or braided shields may actually be preferred over a foil and drain wire shield in terms of SCIN (Shield Current Induced Noise), although they are indeed typically more difficult to work with.  However, the spiral shield and rubberized jacket do indicate that the primary intended use for that cable is probably for portable cordage where flexibility is more critical.

Not necessarily the best option but probably the most common installation cables for microphone lines are West Penn 291 and Belden 9451.

My earlier comments still apply for the snake you've apparently run above the ceiling, it may need to be CL2/CL2R/CM/CMR/CL3/CL3R rated or if the ceiling space is used as a return air plenum then it may need to be CMP/CL2P rated.
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Brad Weber
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Re: Speaker recommendation please!!
« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2011, 04:10:51 pm »

I forgot to mention that it is all the little issues like the ones we're discussing, along with some of the major ones like flying things, that lead to people expressing caution regarding DIY installations.  I've seen facilities be denied a Certificate of Occupancy due to details such as the audio cabling used or even that the audio cabling was properly rated but not properly suspended (which required repulling and rewiring everything to allow it to be properly suspended).
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Brad Weber
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Sidney.Pilien

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Re: Speaker recommendation please!!
« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2011, 11:00:59 pm »

Brad Weber wrote on Thu, 06 January 2011 09:10


I would argue that for installations the individual cables are often a better choice than snake cable.  If you have a number of inputs at one location, something like 8 mics on a single plate, then a multipair with an overall jacket for that location may make sense.  But there is no reason you could not run multiple individual runs and often some advantage in doing so.

What I don't think has been addressed is issues such as cable ratings.  If the cabling is all in conduit then no special rating may be required.  If you run the cabling above ceilings or in walls without conduit then it needs a certain rating.  If the above ceiling space is a plenum space then the cabling needs a different rating.  This applies whether running individual cables or a bundled snake cable.

Another though for installed systems and regardless of whether running snake or individual cables is to run a few extra cables to accommodate some expansion and provide redundancy.  One of the potential disadvantages to snake cables is that if you run an 8 pair snake for 8 connections and any single pair ever goes bad then you have to replace then entire snake.  So think about whether a few redundant runs might be worth the additional initial cost.




My main concern is cost and ease of installation. Danny mentioned they will be using Behringer MX32 so 32 channels but the 1000 ft spool will yield about only 8 channels (120 ft run?)so going w/ the snake the cost savings is huge.

And running a single snake cable is so much easier than say, 14 for wall plate, especially for long runs. What's the space just for 14 single runs?  Bunch up 14 or more and that's the space and more he will need.

As for redundancy, increasing the pairs I think would make more sense than adding extra runs, especially when dealing with limited space.

Gary Creely wrote on Thu, 06 January 2011 11:10

Sidney Pilien wrote on Thu, 06 January 2011 00:45


Stay away from foil shielded cables for snake runs. They're ugly when exposed for termination at the mixer side and are not numbered. Jacketed numbered multi pair (14?) is what you'll need like maybe



Sidney, not sure what you are talking about here. Almost all install mic cable is a foil shield, including the IJIS you describe.



I have foil shields on ours so when I stripped the outer jacket, each core pair is wrapped w/ foil strips (not jacketed) and obviously not numbered so I had to write down all the colors of each wire (also not numbered but some are now) and assign each to a channel. And on the mixer side, I ended up removing all the foil cause they were unravelling, exposing the cores.

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Sidney.Pilien

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Re: Speaker recommendation please!!
« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2011, 11:23:51 pm »

Sidney Pilien wrote on Thu, 06 January 2011 00:45

Quote:

And I ordered 7 x 2female microphone wall plate. I will use about 120ft cable for all the wall plate to mixer.

120ft is okay to use? Do I need to use any repeater?


120' is no problem for mic lines, no repeaters needed. What is important is that you use the proper wire such as this:   http://www.markertek.com/Cables/Bulk-Wire-Cable/Bulk-Audio-C able/West-Penn-Wire-Corp/291-BLACK.xhtml?WP-291-1000YW



Stay away from foil shielded cables for snake runs. They're ugly when exposed for termination at the mixer side and are not numbered. Jacketed numbered multi pair (14?) is what you'll need like maybe http://www.fullcompass.com/product/251795.html.

Hope this helps.
[/quote]

Okay Danny, I'm confused. What are you actually doing? The above post seems to say you want to run that wire from the wall plate to a 120 ft run but...

Danny Ryu wrote on Thu, 06 January 2011 13:20

Thanks Gary.

By the way, can you recommend any microphone cable for future reference?

We also already have snake cable which is pre-made.
Our mixer channel is 32 and I am not willing to plug the cable from the wall plate to snake cable.

What I will do was to run the cable from the wall plate to mixer.

The snake is already ran through the ceiling and we setup on the stage.


You already have a snake but yet are you running extra cables to the wall plate for extra channels?
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Danny Ryu

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Re: Speaker recommendation please!!
« Reply #55 on: January 06, 2011, 11:47:10 pm »

Sorry for making you guys confuse..

I do have 16ch snake cable. I am running the extra cable to the mixer for extra channels.

I mention that, I have 32ch and my snake cable is only 16ch. Thats why I am running more extra cables for extra channels.

I could bought snake cable instead of running so many wires but, Running a single wires is cheaper than buying a snake.

2ch Wall plate, and neutrik connector = $120
2C Microphone 1000ft cable = $85
2C Microphone 500ft cable = $45

Only reason I didn't want to buy snake cable is, I can't make wall plate on the stage. I still need to run a single cable from the snake box to wall plate.
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