ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: sermons on cd are too quiet  (Read 25705 times)

Shad Hall

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
sermons on cd are too quiet
« on: August 06, 2010, 05:29:30 pm »

hi,

when we record the sermon, the audio is super quiet when played back on a laptop or regular cd player. actually, it's quiet even when played back over the church sound system, but since a larger amp exists, i am able to increase the volume enough to be able to hear it.

we are using a mackie 808s powered mixer [details: product pg contains PDF docs].

as for the cd recorder, we are using the tascam cc-222 [details: this link appears to be the updated model].

this is how i have it set up and i wonder if i'm doing something wrong:

mackie 808s TAPE OUT > tascam cc-222 LINE INPUT 1 IN
input volume on tascam is maxed out.

what am i doing wrong?
thanks
Very Happy
Logged
Shad Hall
Live Sound Tech
Roseville Community Church - Mackie 808-S
Elim Trinity Church - A&H GL2800
Sacramento, CA

"I'm an idealist. Get used to me wanting something better."

Tom Young

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1174
Re: sermons on cd are too quiet
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2010, 05:36:10 pm »

The level of the sermon is always lower than the music.

Your best bet is to feed the recorder from an aux bus (postfader, post-EQ) on the mixer so that you can increases the pastor's mic independently of the mix you have for the speaker system. It also helps to compress the sermon recording slightly.
Logged
Tom Young, Church Sound section moderator
Electroacoustic Design Services
Oxford CT
Tel: 203.888.6217
Email: dbspl@earthlink.net
www.dbspl.com

Shad Hall

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
Re: sermons on cd are too quiet
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2010, 08:02:58 pm »

Tom Young wrote on Fri, 06 August 2010 14:36

The level of the sermon is always lower than the music.

Your best bet is to feed the recorder from an aux bus (postfader, post-EQ) on the mixer so that you can increases the pastor's mic independently of the mix you have for the speaker system. It also helps to compress the sermon recording slightly.


i totally agree with you and do so at a different venue, but this board doesn't have individual auxiliaries, so no individual channel control to send to a mix. however, for the compression, i'll definitely make sure that get applied per your suggestion.
Logged
Shad Hall
Live Sound Tech
Roseville Community Church - Mackie 808-S
Elim Trinity Church - A&H GL2800
Sacramento, CA

"I'm an idealist. Get used to me wanting something better."

Dick Rees

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 452
Re: sermons on cd are too quiet
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2010, 08:11:58 pm »

Shad....

Go out and get yourself an EbTech "Line Level Shifter" and place it between the outputs of your board and the CD burner.  You are getting a -10 "consumer level" output and the burner is looking for a +4 "pro level" input signal.  I have this same issue with my Tascam burner and boosting the signal with the level shifter allow me to actually have the use of the input control on the burner.

As a bonus feature you will also tranformer isolate the two units which can be a good safeguard against any hum, buzz or other noise on the recording.

DR
Logged

Shad Hall

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
Re: sermons on cd are too quiet
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2010, 08:20:58 pm »

Dick Rees wrote on Fri, 06 August 2010 17:11

Shad....

Go out and get yourself an EbTech "Line Level Shifter" and place it between the outputs of your board and the CD burner.  You are getting a -10 "consumer level" output and the burner is looking for a +4 "pro level" input signal.  I have this same issue with my Tascam burner and boosting the signal with the level shifter allow me to actually have the use of the input control on the burner.

As a bonus feature you will also tranformer isolate the two units which can be a good safeguard against any hum, buzz or other noise on the recording.

DR

got it! thanks

Very Happy
Logged
Shad Hall
Live Sound Tech
Roseville Community Church - Mackie 808-S
Elim Trinity Church - A&H GL2800
Sacramento, CA

"I'm an idealist. Get used to me wanting something better."

Shad Hall

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
Re: sermons on cd are too quiet
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2010, 08:36:31 pm »

Dick Rees wrote on Fri, 06 August 2010 17:11

Shad....

Go out and get yourself an EbTech "Line Level Shifter" and place it between the outputs of your board and the CD burner.  You are getting a -10 "consumer level" output and the burner is looking for a +4 "pro level" input signal.  I have this same issue with my Tascam burner and boosting the signal with the level shifter allow me to actually have the use of the input control on the burner.

As a bonus feature you will also tranformer isolate the two units which can be a good safeguard against any hum, buzz or other noise on the recording.

DR

hi dick,

thanks for the helpful reply. i'll try to get it purchased this week.

just to make sure i got this right, is this how you would suggest hooking up the line level shifter?

mixer "tape out" {rca's} > line lvl shifter -10 dBV {1/4 ts} > line lvl shifter +4dBu {1/4 ts} > tascam "line input" {rca}

thanks
Logged
Shad Hall
Live Sound Tech
Roseville Community Church - Mackie 808-S
Elim Trinity Church - A&H GL2800
Sacramento, CA

"I'm an idealist. Get used to me wanting something better."

Dick Rees

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 452
Re: sermons on cd are too quiet
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2010, 08:47:44 pm »

Shad Hall wrote on Fri, 06 August 2010 20:36

Dick Rees wrote on Fri, 06 August 2010 17:11

Shad....

Go out and get yourself an EbTech "Line Level Shifter" and place it between the outputs of your board and the CD burner.  You are getting a -10 "consumer level" output and the burner is looking for a +4 "pro level" input signal.  I have this same issue with my Tascam burner and boosting the signal with the level shifter allow me to actually have the use of the input control on the burner.

As a bonus feature you will also tranformer isolate the two units which can be a good safeguard against any hum, buzz or other noise on the recording.

DR

hi dick,

thanks for the helpful reply. i'll try to get it purchased this week.

just to make sure i got this right, is this how you would suggest hooking up the line level shifter?

mixer "tape out" {rca's} > line lvl shifter -10 dBV {1/4 ts} > line lvl shifter +4dBu {1/4 ts} > tascam "line input" {rca}

thanks



Shad...

That's how I do it. Here's a link if you haven't already done the "Google".

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LLS2

DR
Logged

George S Dougherty

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 317
Re: sermons on cd are too quiet
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2010, 11:32:30 pm »

If you don't already have compression on the pastor's mic or inserted on the outputs, it's a good idea to do that too.  Something like an RNC in Super Nice mode would work well.  Only bugger there is Super Nice isn't an option that sticks.  It resets each time the unit looses power.  Even the normal compression does well though.  It'd be my first choice as a simple compact stereo unit with plenty of control.
Logged

Arnold B. Krueger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 850
    • http://www.pcavtech.com
Re: sermons on cd are too quiet
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2010, 06:34:06 am »

Dick Rees wrote on Sat, 07 August 2010 01:11

Shad....

Go out and get yourself an EbTech "Line Level Shifter" and place it between the outputs of your board and the CD burner.  You are getting a -10 "consumer level" output and the burner is looking for a +4 "pro level" input signal.



I've never seen an audio CD player that didn't have enough gain reserve (about 11 dB are needed) to overcome this situation.

Once you apply the recommended linear audio gain by external means, you still have done *nothing* to address the problem. All you will have done is had to readjust the gain control on the CD recorder to accomodate the higher input signal. You'll still be making recordings where the sermon is subjectively (and actually) about 10 dB quieter than the music.

The core of the problem is that there is a difference between live listening and listening to recordings, such that there is this need to add about 10 dB to the spoken word parts to make them seem to have the same loudness as the music on the recording. I've talked to a ton of church volunteers about this and we all see it.

The suggestion that a compressor be used to automatically make up the difference is one potential solution.

Another solution is to simply manually advance the gain on the recorder just before the sermon and announcements start, and back it down before the music starts. You can put 2 marks on the front panel, one for music and one for spoken word.

Or, you can edit the CD before you distribute it and make up the difference in the digital domain.
Logged

Dick Rees

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 452
Re: sermons on cd are too quiet
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2010, 12:48:09 pm »

Arnold B. Krueger wrote on Mon, 09 August 2010 06:34


Another solution is to simply manually advance the gain on the recorder just before the sermon and announcements start, and back it down before the music starts. You can put 2 marks on the front panel, one for music and one for spoken word.






Hi, Arnold.....

I quote the above in reference to the OP stating:

"input volume on tascam is maxed out."

This tells me that there is no way to "manually advance the gain on the recorder" as you recommend.  By simply showing the recorder a stronger signal you can now use the tecnique you recommend.  

In several church installs I've done I have used a Rane "Swiss Army" line distro to address the issue of needing different levels of the same feed for recording, crying room, fellowship hall, etc.   This is another (more expensive) fix.

Whatever works.  I just was stating the way that I do it when the house is being fed a signal at +4 and the tape outs are at -10.  The little level shifter box simply puts them both at the same level.

Best wishes.

DR
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Up
 


Page created in 0.064 seconds with 22 queries.