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Author Topic: Mic'n Drums with Shield?  (Read 22596 times)

Aaron McQueen

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Re: Mic'n Drums with Shield?
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2009, 09:57:11 pm »

Jarron Wright wrote on Thu, 07 May 2009 19:33

anyway the people who wanna do it say everyone has the drummer mixing his own drums at stage and then just sending the mono/stereo channel back through the snake into the board


They are wrong, this is not the way most people do it.

Quote:

also if we did run it at the FOH would we have to use another amp for that mixer?


Send the outputs of you sub mixer to the FOH mixer.  You shouldn't need another amp.  Amp go with speakers.
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Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God - Romans 10:17 NKJV

Justin Langman

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Re: Mic'n Drums with Shield?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2009, 10:18:11 pm »

No amp required.

The purpose of submix-ing is simply to give you some more input channels. By mixing your drums seperately and then feeding only the mix to your main board, it only takes up one channel.

Let us know what mixer you have if you like. But any mixer should to the job. Does it have channel eq or were referring to some kind of small graphic eq on the outputs?
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Nathan Tisdale

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Re: Mic'n Drums with Shield?
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2009, 10:19:50 am »

yes please don't give the option to your drummer to mix his own drums, I am drummer and I know I would not want to mix myself for the FOH because it would sound bad. because if it was up to me the kick would be vibrating the old people's skin off lol.
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Nathan Tisdale
Technical Director
Christian Assembly Worship Center
Lancaster, SC

John Fiorello

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Re: Mic'n Drums with Shield?
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2009, 04:04:33 pm »

Justin Langman wrote on Thu, 07 May 2009 01:50


Looking at your stage, to get the most benefit, you will want some sort of absorption on the wall behind to drums, otherwise most of the sound will be reflected into the room anyway.




Add the hard ceiling and the largest difference with the shield will be for the musicians standing just in front of it.

I'd start with the shield first and hear what you need.  And by shield, I would suggest an absorptive back as well.

Then if you need mics, you could get away with a snare/kick combo.  But that will totally depend on the sound you are still getting when the shield goes up.


2 cents, anyway.


JF
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Dan Costello

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Re: Mic'n Drums with Shield?
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2009, 04:28:09 pm »

Jarron Wright wrote on Thu, 07 May 2009 19:33


anyway the people who wanna do it say everyone has the drummer mixing his own drums at stage and then just sending the mono/stereo channel back through the snake into the board



Yes, they are very wrong. Of all the people in the room, the drummer is probably in the worst position to be making mix changes.

-Dan.
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Dan Costello

"Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.."

Tim Padrick

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Re: Mic'n Drums with Shield?
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2009, 12:00:40 am »

If VDrums or a drummer who can play for the situation are out of the question, you need a shield with an absorbtive top.  Otherwise, the benefit will be much less than you think.  An absorbtive back wall would be good as well.  You can then mic them up.

If you submix, put the mixer someplace where it can be accessed easily by someone who can hear the kit as the congregation hears it.

Jason Napper

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Re: Mic'n Drums with Shield?
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2009, 05:55:14 am »

Had the same problem at my church. Our hall is extremely bad for reverb, and we have a loud drummer. Our stage is triangle shaped, with the back walls forming the point of the triangle. I made 2 square metal frames 2.4 x 2.4 metres that we mount perspex on to make the walls of the screen. I then have 2 pieces of plywood angled at 45 degrees inwards from the top to deflect the sound back down. We then used acoustic foam on the back wall and it made the world of difference. Even without the top sealed it made the sound so much more controllable during services. Just do the screen first, and then evaluate whether you need michrophones, because to do that and have a submixer is going to be quite a hassle.
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Jeff Ekstrand

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Re: Mic'n Drums with Shield?
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2009, 07:59:12 am »

I don't think I can remember a single non-electric drum kit that I've seen mixed from the stage. In some cases, with smaller setups, I'll only take maybe 4 inputs from V-Drums, but we spend time sound-checking them, and the drummers are sworn to leave their settings under penalty of "wrath of audio engineers everywhere."

Anyway, in no acoustic setting have I ever seen a drum kit submixed at the stage. Not only is it not the normal way to do things, it's almost unheard of in any professional situation.

Sounds like your band wants to do things the way the pros do it... or at least "everyone" does it. Everyone recommending that you do it this way can send your church plenty of references and credentials backing why we know this to be the best practice.

No offense to drummers. Some of them are the best mixers I know when they sit behind a console at FOH or in a studio. But those drummers who are great mixers will also recognize that they are in no place to mix while behind their kit.
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Jeff Ekstrand

Technical Director, North Shore Campus
Willow Creek Community Church
Northfield, IL

Nathan Tisdale

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Re: Mic'n Drums with Shield?
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2009, 08:45:21 am »

jeff hit it on the head
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Nathan Tisdale
Technical Director
Christian Assembly Worship Center
Lancaster, SC

Len Phillips

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Re: Mic'n Drums with Shield?
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2009, 09:11:17 am »

Jason
You need to remember that the purpose of a drum shield is to restrict the spread of sound from the kit. So for the congregation to clearly hear the drums they must now be miced and mixed into FOH. Even if submixed this must be fed into main mixer otherwise you cannot mix the sound as a whole. Of course if your FOH system cannot accurately reproduce drums then you may be better off encouraging your drummer to play softer.
Len
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