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Author Topic: Help with electric drums  (Read 2652 times)

Arnold B. Krueger

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Re: Help with electric drums
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2009, 02:21:27 pm »

Aaron Martin wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 21:22



We have a set of Roland TD-12 Electric Drums that we are having problems getting the snare to cut through the mix.



We have TD-12s and they seem to get the job done.

Electronic drums can be harder to play, but our drummers just adapt.

Quote:


I have tried to adjust the slider on the module, but then the snare is way too loud in our monitors. We have a Allen & Heath GL-2400 Bi-amp mono setup with an Aviom system for monitors. Drummers use either Shure E-2's or E-5's. Is there any tips on how to get the snare in the mix better without blowing our ears out in the monitors?



I have an 02R96 which has 4 band parametric eq on every input and most outputs including the auxes. I suspect that you could implement my approach with any good external eq, either graphic or parametric.

We also have an aux channel and stage monitor dedicated to the drummer. I think you have similar facilities available to you.

My basic approach is to change the equalization for the  the drummer's stage monitor with the *inverse* of the change I want to make in the FOH.

If I want more kick in the FOH, then I cut the bass (< 200 Hz) in the drummer's monitor. If I want more small drums, then I cut the midrange (400-2K), and if I want more cymbals, I cut the treble (> 2 Khz).

When I do this during rehearsal, I can generally see the drummer almost instantly reach out and adjust the gain controls for the individual synth sounds on the TD 12 controller to undo what just I changed in his monitor feed.

Then, the FOH becomes what I want, and he has the monitor sound he wants.
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Jeff Ekstrand

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Re: Help with electric drums
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2009, 02:48:32 pm »

Quote:

We also have an aux channel and stage monitor dedicated to the drummer. I think you have similar facilities available to you.

My basic approach is to change the equalization for the the drummer's stage monitor with the *inverse* of the change I want to make in the FOH.

If I want more kick in the FOH, then I cut the bass (< 200 Hz) in the drummer's monitor. If I want more small drums, then I cut the midrange (400-2K), and if I want more cymbals, I cut the treble (> 2 Khz).

When I do this during rehearsal, I can generally see the drummer almost instantly reach out and adjust the gain controls for the individual synth sounds on the TD 12 controller to undo what just I changed in his monitor feed.

Then, the FOH becomes what I want, and he has the monitor sound he wants.

Unfortunately, the OP states that he's using Avioms. Any EQ changes have to be made at the channel strip, which means any changes made by the drummer nullify any changes he made at the board.
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Jeff Ekstrand

Technical Director, North Shore Campus
Willow Creek Community Church
Northfield, IL

Arnold B. Krueger

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Re: Help with electric drums
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2009, 07:43:12 am »

Jeff Ekstrand wrote on Wed, 11 February 2009 19:48

Quote:



I suspect that you could implement my approach with any good external eq, either graphic or parametric.

We also have an aux channel and stage monitor dedicated to the drummer. I think you have similar facilities available to you.

My basic approach is to change the equalization for the the drummer's stage monitor with the *inverse* of the change I want to make in the FOH.

If I want more kick in the FOH, then I cut the bass (< 200 Hz) in the drummer's monitor. If I want more small drums, then I cut the midrange (400-2K), and if I want more cymbals, I cut the treble (> 2 Khz).

When I do this during rehearsal, I can generally see the drummer almost instantly reach out and adjust the gain controls for the individual synth sounds on the TD 12 controller to undo what just I changed in his monitor feed.

Then, the FOH becomes what I want, and he has the monitor sound he wants.

Unfortunately, the OP states that he's using Avioms.



...which are usually connected to direct outs, which may be switched to pre fade, pre eq; pre fade post eq, or post fade, post eq.

http://www.allen-heath.com/DL/gl2400_blockdiagram.pdf

Quote:


Any EQ changes have to be made at the channel strip,



Not if there is a separate eq in line with the monitor (Aviom) path which I suggested in the post you have partially quoted. I put back the text you deleted when you quoted me, for whatever reason.

Jeff, I don't know why you deleted this critical text, but deleting it certainly did no good for anybody. Deleting this text did make your comment appear to be relevant.


Quote:


which means any changes made by the drummer nullify any changes he made at the board.


Since the GL2400 is analog, isn't the connection from  the board to the Aviom system analog, and therefore can't outboard eq added to that analog path as I suggested in my earlier post?
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Jeff Ekstrand

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Re: Help with electric drums
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2009, 02:48:40 pm »

Quote:

Jeff, I don't know why you deleted this critical text, but deleting it certainly did no good for anybody. Deleting this text did make your comment appear to be relevant.


Sorry, I misread your post, and failed to take into account that the external EQ you were mentioning would go on an aux out of the board feeding the Aviom.

You mentioned putting an EQ on the "drummer's monitor," which lead me to think you were thinking along the lines of a wedge or PSM mix, and that these EQ changes you would make would be for that purpose. This idea made less sense to me because any EQ changes made to that sort of EQ signal chain would affect more than the tone of the drums.

I did not leave out "critical text" on purpose, and am not in the habit of taking things out of context. Please know that this was not intended to slight you in any way. It was a simple misread of your previous post.

Arnold, the way the post looked to me it seemed a bit unlike most of your other posts (most of them look like your response to mine; Very, very detailed and technical). I figured you may have misread the thread somewhere, and did not mean for my post to insult you in any way.
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Jeff Ekstrand

Technical Director, North Shore Campus
Willow Creek Community Church
Northfield, IL
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