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Author Topic: Floor Monitor questions  (Read 2852 times)

A.J. McGlynn

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Floor Monitor questions
« on: October 08, 2007, 04:06:18 pm »

OK here is the deal. I have just started a new job as a tech director for a church. We are moving into a new building into November. The house system is has been professionally designed and specked out. It will be properly aligned and tuned. But the company is not providing monitors. I was not in on the design phase. So I need to come up with a solution. The worship pastor does not perfer aviom or any system like it. We will have 4 IEMs and the rest will be wedges. I have a monitor console picked  out. What I am having problems with is my wedges.

I know how important it is to have the perfect main speakers. I am confident that my install company has done this correctly. But, how important is it to have the perfect matched monitors for my room. I am not looking for a cheap solution such as jbl, yamaha, behringer, or any other cheap monitors. I have a good budget to work with but I want to use it wisely.

I understand coverage and most of the ones I have picked out will do the job but what else do I need to look for. I am thinking of 15" wedges for the drum area and for the bass player. 12" wedges for guitars and my singers will be on IEMs. Some of the models I am looking at are Turbosound TXD12M, Bag End TA2000-CF, and EAW SM129Z. The bag end model has a rotatable horn which gives me more options.

I just want to make sure I am covering all my bases. So just let me know if I am on the right track.
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A.J. McGlynn, Technical Director
Grace Church
Erie, PA

Tom Young

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Re: Floor Monitor questions
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2007, 04:35:39 pm »

Here's a review:

Turbosound TXD12M: with few exceptions you do not want a wider vertical versus narrower horizontal coverage angle in a floor monitor wedge.

Bag End TA2000-CF: this incorporates a very small HF horn that cannot maintain coverage/pattern control down into the crossover range and (at the same time) this coverage pattern does not match (or come close to) the pattern control of the woofer.

EAW SM129Z: the 90x45 coverage pattern of the HF horn is much better suited to the task and the horn is also of decent size. They also have a 15" model and it is wise to use wedges from the same manufacturer so that they sound and behave more alike. These are EAW's mid-cost models and do an acceptable job. The SM200 is a remarkably good wedge but costs much more.

Go with the EAW's.

Make sure you have 1/3-octave graphic EQ's on each wedge mix. Far better would be the graphics (for adjustment by ear) plus DSP with parametric EQ. You then measure (have the contractor measure them, assuming they have a time-based/complex measurement system) the wedges in position and then even-out the response. Since you obviously intend for the 15" wedges to be fed bass instruments (bass and kick), make sure you have a good high-pass filter on them (available in DSP).
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Tom Young, Church Sound section moderator
Electroacoustic Design Services
Oxford CT
Tel: 203.888.6217
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Kevin Hoober

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Re: Floor Monitor questions
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2007, 04:47:24 pm »

AJ,
I hate to be that guy, and this completely doesn't answer the question, but: What's the beef Aviom?

Personally, I've found Aviom to be a great solution for the band.  It boggles my mind that the rest of the stage would be on ears, except the loudest noise producers, and possibly the easiest to put on ears(at least via Aviom)--the band.

Ok, to throw you a bone in wedge world, I have some BagEnd TA2000 wedges (black paint, not rat fur).  For the price, I'm happy with them; the bottom end is a little weak (not a big deal for vox monitors-my use)  I also have a bunch of EAW129z, also a good wedge, (although, I wish the angle were different)  I'd also check out the radian microwedges--I think EAW will soon be building a version of these.

Kevin H.

edit, after reading Tom's post
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A.J. McGlynn

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Re: Floor Monitor questions
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2007, 04:49:28 pm »

Thanks for the info Tom. I really appreciate the details.

I have been leaning towards the EAW's but I am worried that I wont be able to get them in time. Hopefully I can get all of this figured out.
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A.J. McGlynn, Technical Director
Grace Church
Erie, PA

A.J. McGlynn

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Re: Floor Monitor questions
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2007, 04:51:32 pm »

I love Avioms. I used them in my last church I worked at but I cannot convince everyone else. Most of the musicians are old school and dont like the idea of Avioms.
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A.J. McGlynn, Technical Director
Grace Church
Erie, PA

Kevin Hoober

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Re: Floor Monitor questions
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2007, 05:06:54 pm »

too, bad.  You could almost ditch the monitor console, if you could convince them otherwise.  

My world is a bit different, as the band leader is the one who LOVES the aviom(he runs click and a talkback to the band), and he tells the players 'how it is'  Shocked

Kevin H
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Tom Young

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Re: Floor Monitor questions
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2007, 05:15:37 pm »

I hear you but you will have to live with these for a long time.

If you are buying them from the contractor they might have some loaners while you wait.
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Tom Young, Church Sound section moderator
Electroacoustic Design Services
Oxford CT
Tel: 203.888.6217
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A.J. McGlynn

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Re: Floor Monitor questions
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2007, 05:34:07 pm »

Actually thats the thing we are not. I do not know why we are not buying these from the contractor but we're not. Like I  said before I wasn't in on the ground stage. I have to come up with the monitors on my own.
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A.J. McGlynn, Technical Director
Grace Church
Erie, PA

David Sumrall

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Re: Floor Monitor questions
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2007, 06:55:20 pm »

Hey AJ,

Do you have a real budget to work with??

Can you tell us more about the rest of the rig for perspective??

Is putting the drummer and bass player on hardwired ears via mixes from the monitor console an option?? The shure 600 hardwired plus ears would be cheaper then separate amps, boxes, and processing. It would be cleaner on the stage and give you less problems of stage spill.

Could you try and get both wedges and ears for flexibility? Do you have the auxes??

Really descent wedges are gonna be in the $1,200 and up range. I would try and get the best you can afford. Since this is a new setup you probably have some room to play. They band, singers, and MOM will love you for it.

Have the amps already been specked and bought?? Who is doing the installation??

Do you have to worry about being rider friendly??

If you can spend the money I would try and get something that can handle some juice, sounds great, is biamped or can be biamped switchable, and is rider friendly.

I second the recommendation on the EAW SM200's. We have the newer IH version with is biamp or full range selectable via a switch on the outside. We have  about 11 or 12 or so of these on our Worship Center stage. We also have 4 of the SM500's with the 15's in the our storage room that come out from time to time. We have a front line of 4 200's on the same mix from two amps biamped. For the other 200's we have designated mixes for horns (1), small choir (2), perc (1), conductor(1), special L (1) special R (1).

We have never had a rider issue with either.

I see the 200's on lots of riders that come our way in fact.

These sound killer with the right power. The 200ih is also lower in profile.

Plan your power so you can run two wedges per amp channel.

We have one pair of d&b max 12's we just bought for a new room for the single wedge mix as the other 8 mixes are ears. Talk about smooth and loud. It can be biamp or full range as well.
We plan to get many more of these and their bigger brothers in the future.

I will also echo the recommendation of making all of your wedges the same box.

I hope that helped a bit.

Good Luck!

David Sumrall
Technical Director/A1
First Baptist Orlando
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David Sumrall
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Gateway Church
Soutlake Texas
GatewayPeople.com

Brad Weber

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Re: Floor Monitor questions
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2007, 07:20:02 pm »

You mentioned drums, bass, guitars and vocals, but do you also potentially need monitors for the pastor, keyboards, strings, brass, woodwinds, etc.?

Pure curiosity, but you noted that you selected a monitor console and the contractor is not providing that or any of the monitoring.  Does the system design that was performed include the monitoring and it was just the equipment not being provided or was monitoring not considered at all in the house system effort?  It's not as though the monitors are a totally independent system that has no interaction with the house system.  This may have been addressed in the system planning and design performed, but you might want to verify that any monitor related conduit, connectivity, mic splits or other source provisions, rack space, power, etc. are accommodated.
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Brad Weber
muse Audio Video
www.museav.com
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