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Author Topic: More Aviom Channels.  (Read 1931 times)

A.J. McGlynn

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More Aviom Channels.
« on: October 06, 2006, 06:09:45 pm »

Okay I know this has been discussed here way back and I know the solution to the Problem. I do not have enough aviom channels for everything that I am using in my Church. Now I know that I can subgroup my drums and things of that nature but I really dont want to do that and I know the drummer doesnt either. To me it only makes sense if we could have 2 of AN-16/i's. There would more than likely need to be word clock on the two input devices. Then send two cat5's to the Distributor (it would have to have multiple inputs). Then on the mixer you just have a bank button and bank over and adjust. My Idea is probably flawed and this is probably why Aviom has yet to implement a system of this nature but it only makes sense to me. Please someone way in and correct me if I am wrong.
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A.J. McGlynn, Technical Director
Grace Church
Erie, PA

Ira White

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Re: More Aviom Channels.
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2006, 09:24:03 pm »

Are you using a digital mixer?
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Ira White
Sanctuary Sound, Inc.

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Ira White

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Re: More Aviom Channels.
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2006, 07:47:31 am »

I can assume "not digital" since you mention an AN16i. I would like more channel control too without breaking the bank, and I'm not crazy about my head being directly "tethered" to the Aviom by the headphone cord. I've got an IEM idea for almost unlimited channel capability with digital mixers, but I'm trying to find a company that may be able to implement it. I'll let the forum know if anything happens.
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Ira White
Sanctuary Sound, Inc.

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Mark Langner

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Re: More Aviom Channels.
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2006, 06:26:27 pm »

Well, I"m going to stick my neck out and "try to be helpful"...Lord knows there are more qualified on this board.

In our church we run a soundcraft MH3 (analog) board.  On stage, we have (2) aviom units for the snakes (making 32 input channels).  There is a cat connector box (forget model number).  One cat cable goes to the board, where it plugs into another of these small boxes.  From that small box one cat cable each to the receiving (2) aviom units.  I now patch 32 inputs to my sound board.

From the sound board, I only (at present) have 16 channels to route to the aviom unit that sends to the "ears".  Naturally I'm putting the various drum channnels to a group and sending the group to a single ears channel for the drummer.  I do this because I have 4 background vocals, up to 4 guitars, keyboards, and 2 lead vocals...need the channels.  I have reserved one of the 16 channels for "talkback" since everyone on stage can't hear me with the ears in.  I can also use that channel for infrequent oddball stuff.

You may not be aware, but on the aviom.com website, they have a new Pro64 setup due out soon that gives us greatter flexibility in running multiple output channels to single in-ears channels without having to necesarrilly use the aux/group bus.  I've spoken with them at length on this, very exciting stuff.  However, I believe we are still going to be restricted to a portable aviom unit for the musicians that is limited to just 16 channels.  This is about as much as I know of the Pro64 units at this time.

As a side note, something of interest.  Our Worship leader (a pastor) has a wireless shure in ears device.  We have it cabled such that he can make adjustments on his aviom 16 portable controller, but hear all his adjustments in his hears (we have the transmitter plugged into the aviom system).  Works great.  I'm at work and don't recall the exact wiring paths, but would be happy to be more detailed if someone was interested in how we wire that.

I hope this is somewhat helpful.

-Mark
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Ira White

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Re: More Aviom Channels.
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2006, 08:37:10 am »

Mark, you could group the Talkback with another less critical group like speaking mics or CD playback to save another channel for an individual need. I have drum toms and cymbals grouped but kick, snare, and hat individual for more control and since national artists always request that. I offer the CD playback since I have some wedges patched to Aviom control so a singer can control their own soundtrack level. (Also needed for wireless IEM.)
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Ira White
Sanctuary Sound, Inc.

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mark ahlenius

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Re: More Aviom Channels.
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2006, 01:28:10 am »

Hi,

here's my 2 cents on this topic:  We have the Aviom system as well but went the aux group mix approach for the drum kit.  We use 8-9 mics on the drum kit, so it would chew up too many aviom channels for our liking.  Even with the drums "aux'd" down to 1 aviom channel, we use up almost all the others for muscian/vocalists.

I find that once we do an initial level setting at the beginning of each practice session, that rarely does the drummer ask for any changes.  This hold pretty much true for the 3 drummers we have.  From week to week, these aux settings for the kit remain pretty static.


We also do use a Shure IEM wireless unit for our worship leader who'd rather walk around unteathered too.

Anyone else found a decent wireless xmitter for use on the Avioms?  The shure unit (PSM 600?) is very costly to have for each vocalist.

regards,

'mark
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Ira White

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Re: More Aviom Channels.
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2006, 02:06:23 pm »

The new Galaxy Anyspot system is the cheapest on the market at around $400 for a UHF IEM system. More basic in features, but sounds good if you use a brand name set of earbuds on it. (The ones included sound poor.)

Though balanced input is mono, you can use the RCA stereo inputs to handle a stereo feed off the Aviom mixer. Just need a stereo 1/4"TRS to split RCA for the connection, and you can even find those at Radio Shack.
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Ira White
Sanctuary Sound, Inc.

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Cliff45

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Re: More Aviom Channels.
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2006, 10:17:34 pm »

Hi All-

I hope this can help or even "inspire" some folks with Aviom, as we have a lot of them here and have enjoyed them immensely over the last three years. At one time we had FIVE AN-16/i boxes (they were called A-16T at first) to cover all the band and singers mix needs.  One mix for basic band (guitars, keys, drums), one mix for BGV singers, one mix for brass players, one mix for strings section, and the fifth mix for the worship leaders (he and his wife lead together). The BGV and worship leaders all fed from the A-16 mixpads outs back to Shure PSM600's (ten total, that's all the freq. you can get to work together at once). It took a Mackie 1604 (drum&percs submix to stereo) and a 32ch Mackie "8-Bus" which used a combination of direct and group outs to downmix various feeds for them all. Some channels just went straight from the Allen-Heath ML4000 direct outs to the Aviom converters if they we not downmixed or re-routed often. There was another volunteer sound guy besides myself who helped me design and build it all in an unbelevable "soldering frenzy" over the time available from Thursday to Saturday and get it all installed.  It ran flawlessly until we moved into our new facility this past April, then we took it all apart and moved some of the input units and mixers to all our youth room stages (three bands).

I say all this to (hopefully) help anyone who is getting some "resistance" to implementing a few Aviom units on their stage for monitoring.  I have yet to find anyone who plays in our group or has visited here as a guest musician to ever complain about their monitor mix quality! Every one of our worship leaders have acknowledged that the Aviom was one of the single biggest boosts to the quality of the musicians' support equipment that we have purchased in our church. When we upgraded to digital mixers in our new auditorium, the output rack had three Aviom output cards installed from day one. The band, brass, and strings all get Aviom feeds, but due to the growth in our BGV section (from six to ten+ singers) we moved them and the worship leaders IEM feeds back to the Aux sends on the monitor console. The new stage has no room for all those A-16's lined up for the BGV and worship leaders, plus the 80+ inputs make it hard to choose WHICH 16 channels everyone can agrees upon!

For my music director (he plays sax mostly), I am looking at "stacking" two A-16 mixpads together and combining the stereo line outs via a small mixer (like the Rolls MX51 "minimix II") to his in-ears (wired). Then he gets his 16ch band plus his 16ch brass any way he wants it... Surprised

Wireless IEM's can be great, but if you're running more than two or so you'll need to seriously consider a "multiplexer" for the antennas. It was no small improvement in RF intermodulation cleanup that we realized when we did this here during the big Aviom install way back when! Our PSM700's have a PA821 8-to-1 combiner, it's much better than a passive combiner unit in this regard. The $3500 price is a bit scary, though Shocked

As far as new Aviom products, how about "badgering" them for a wireless link between the A-16R rack unit and the A-16CS mixer that controls it? Perfect for wireless IEM feeds, no wires at all (A-16CS would be battery powered)!

Very Happy
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Cliff Rosenberg
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Resurrection Life Church - Grandville, MI

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Karl P(eterson)

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Re: More Aviom Channels.
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2006, 12:08:26 am »

We got rid of a hodgepodge of PSM 200/600/700 for a Senn based system (ew300) that runs off of avioms and have never looked back. We have mostly upgraded the buds - but the stock ones weren't that bad. Even those who were on the 700's prefer these new 300's that and they run on AA batteries, they are saving us a fortune.

Karl P
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Tom Young

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« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2006, 06:43:32 am »

Please edit your profile and use your real name when posting. This is one of the rules here.

Thanks.
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Tom Young, Church Sound section moderator
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