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[Frank Koenig]

I'm working on a project that will require putting some loops in the ends of (likely 3/16 in.) wire rope. Ideally these would be "suitable for lifting" while not being used "to suspend people or objects over people". It looks like Nicopress-compatible copper sleeves are called for. Swaging tools range from ~$20 clamps that use bolts to supply the force to $5000+ hydraulic and roller tools. There are many $200 to $500 bolt-cutter style hand tools as well. Do the clamp-style tools, say the ~$50 ones, used carefully, make as good a crimp as the bolt-cutter style, just more slowly? I appreciate any guidance. Thanks.

--Frank

[Lee Buckalew]

I'm working on a project that will require putting some loops in the ends of (likely 3/16 in.) wire rope. Ideally these would be "suitable for lifting" while not being used "to suspend people or objects over people". It looks like Nicopress-compatible copper sleeves are called for. Swaging tools range from ~$20 clamps that use bolts to supply the force to $5000+ hydraulic and roller tools. There are many $200 to $500 bolt-cutter style hand tools as well. Do the clamp-style tools, say the ~$50 ones, used carefully, make as good a crimp as the bolt-cutter style, just more slowly? I appreciate any guidance. Thanks.

--Frank

We used to make our own when I was doing live production.  We utilized the bolt-cutter type version that you referenced.  I believe they were a few hundred dollars in the 90's.  Aside from using the correct sleeves, etc. for the wire rope size and ratings that you are needing you should get a correct go/no go gauge to test the swaged sleeves after you install them.
I don't know how any of this would be dealt with in a situation where litigation was involved.

On the installation side we routinely have them built for us by a local company (John Sakach Company) that build them and load test each assembly and provides us with the test data for our records on each project.


As far as wire rope clips go, I never recommend them as they do require as a part of regular inspections, checking all nuts for proper torque.
Here is the OSHA recommendation;
        Wire rope clips and hooks:
                Do not use knots to fabricate your own slings,
                Do not use wire rope clips to fabricate wire rope slings, except where the application precludes the use of prefabricated slings and where the sling is
                designed for the specific application by a qualified person,
                Install wire rope clips according to the recommendations of the manufacturer or a qualified person,
                Do not use slings made with wire rope clips in a choker hitch,
                Use only wire rope clips made from drop-forged steel of the single-saddle (U-bolt) or double-saddle type clip,
                Do not use malleable cast iron clips to fabricate slings,
                Refer to the clip manufacturer for spacing, number of clips, and torque values,
                Attach U-bolts to wire rope clips with the U-bolt over the dead end of the rope and the live rope resting in the clip saddle,
                Tighten clips evenly to the recommended torque before and after the initial load is applied,
                Regularly inspect clips to ensure that the recommended torque remains, and
                Inspect clips periodically for wear, abuse, or damage.

And a link to the OSHA page regarding wire rope slings;
https://www.osha.gov/dsg/guidance/slings/wire.html


Lee

[Frank Koenig]

Thanks so much for the response. It occurred to me to find a local shop to do it and I have yet to look into that. It was so much easier back in the day to find local places that would make up ropes, hoses, etc. --Frank

[John Roberts {JR}]

I had to replace the wire rope cables for my weight machine a few times so invested in the gear. I use one of the bolt-cutter(?) style tools... It is heavy, has long handles for leverage, and compound action for even more clamping force. Sorry I bought it a few decades ago so don't remember what I paid...

You could borrow mine if you come to Hickory, or better yet somebody else closer.

JR

[Bob Leonard]

Don't cheap out on the tools or materials Frank. You may regret doing so at a later date and time.

[Don Davis]

I'm working on a project that will require putting some loops in the ends of (likely 3/16 in.) wire rope. Ideally these would be "suitable for lifting" while not being used "to suspend people or objects over people". It looks like Nicopress-compatible copper sleeves are called for. Swaging tools range from ~$20 clamps that use bolts to supply the force to $5000+ hydraulic and roller tools. There are many $200 to $500 bolt-cutter style hand tools as well. Do the clamp-style tools, say the ~$50 ones, used carefully, make as good a crimp as the bolt-cutter style, just more slowly? I appreciate any guidance. Thanks.

--Frank

Hi Frank,
I purchased our tool and hardware from these guys.
https://www.e-rigging.com/
They also have some good videos about various rigging products you might find useful.
I'm in So Cal, if you're nearby you can borrow my hand swaging tool.
Don

[Tim McCulloch]

Nicopress 310 or 500, as appropriate, with the correct dies and go/no-go gauging.

I'd like to reinforce Lee's wire rope observations and OSHA guidance.  I've seen more incorrectly used "wire rope clips" than not.  Malleable clips, or installed wrong, or both.

We have a local lifting/hoisting supply shop that will build wire rope slings with tags and provide the design/test data for each.  If I were needing slings for a product I'd strongly consider using such a firm.  For proof of concept or prototypes I'd probably roll my own up to 1/4 inch; after that I'd rather pay for fabrication.

[Lee Buckalew]

Nicopress 310 or 500, as appropriate, with the correct dies and go/no-go gauging.

I'd like to reinforce Lee's wire rope observations and OSHA guidance.  I've seen more incorrectly used "wire rope clips" than not.  Malleable clips, or installed wrong, or both.

We have a local lifting/hoisting supply shop that will build wire rope slings with tags and provide the design/test data for each.  If I were needing slings for a product I'd strongly consider using such a firm.  For proof of concept or prototypes I'd probably roll my own up to 1/4 inch; after that I'd rather pay for fabrication.

I did not think of this earlier but, one of the things that our local supplier does is create anything that we need with eyes utilizing (I think) a Flemish splice in the wire rope itself in addition to a swaged sleeve. 
The splice itself is actually rated to hold the load and, if I understand correctly, tightens under load.  The swage is essentially there to keep the entire assembly together and free of those nasty splayed ends that are so comfortable on the hands 

You can also tell the shop what the functionality is if it is a single use application and they will recommend a specific wire rope construction for best...abrasion resistance, lack of twisting under load, use with specific pulley's or other accessories, etc.

Another product that we will use depending upon the situation is various Grip Lock (https://www.griplocksystems.com/) cable grippers.  Used at one end of an assembly only and with proper safeties of course but these allow for rapid adjustment of cable length which, given the cost of labor, can easily offset the cost of the Grip Lock devices.


Lee

[Stephen Kirby]

If you have a chandlery around they can make it up correctly.  West Marine stores usually have a press sitting on a bench where you can make things up yourself.  I've made up bunches of things for my sail boat, and a few safety wires for lights as well.

[Richard Turner]

watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlECTP3Qr0Q I prefer the bench type swage tool, just easier than the free bolt cutter types. Depending on local safety regs I prefer copper swage clips. I've never had a copper clip fail to come out proper and unless you know what mix the aluminum is and have good supply chain info the extra expense is negligible.

[Art Welter]

Thanks so much for the response. It occurred to me to find a local shop to do it and I have yet to look into that. It was so much easier back in the day to find local places that would make up ropes, hoses, etc. --Frank

Wish it would of occurred to me too- your post made me remember yet another set of tools (18" swage tool & 30" wire rope cutter) I have not used in far too long that will be going, going, gone...

[Doug Johnson]

Rigging.com sells a large assortment of pre-made rated cable slings.
 rigging.com/overhead-lifting

[Frank Koenig]

Thank you all for the many responses. Lots of great information, which I hope might be useful to others, too.

The project, definitely a one-off/prototype, is a speaker stand to fill the gap between the typical tripod stand (speaker-on-a-stick) and larger towers or lifts, such as Genie, Trabes, etc. Requirements include ~9 ft boom height (usable with a 10 ft ceiling), 150 lb working load, easily transportable and erectable by one person, and the ability to snatch the speaker off a dolly on the ground so that no lifting is needed. The design I'm working on resembles a scaled-down version of the Trabes 4.5 m tower and is entirely bolted together from aluminum tubing and channel with only a few machined parts and no welds. It looks like it might weigh ~70 lbs. So far it's just a design study and I have no idea how far I want to take it.

It will need some sort of winch. The rigging world favors wire rope, while I'd really like to use nylon or another polymer webbing, which is lighter and so much easier to handle. At this point I'm exploring possibilities and uncovering gotchas.

I'm well aware of the liability concerns of taking such product to market, or even just out in the wild. The extreme litigiousness here in the States is likely why the selection of speaker supports is as thin as it is, and there appears to be nothing to fill what might a be a fairly widespread need. So it goes.

--Frank

[Nathan Riddle]

For a reasonably priced swager with cutter & gauge this is what I got.

618-HSC-600
https://www.riggingwarehouse.com/default.aspx?page=item+detail&itemcode=618-HSC-600&catlist=2481

[Stephen Kirby]

Some years ago, I made up similar towers for a system I'd built.  Two rectangular box section extrusions.  I actually found it easier to repurpose rollers made for boat trailers.  I also used a boat trailer winch with 2" webbing as the lifting mechanism.  All these parts are designed to handle 2000lb + boats.  I've torn them down and scrapped the stuff as I scrapped the speakers I'd built and couldn't see the need to hang anything 10-12' up.  If you had some lightweight compact line array things (ignoring all the issues with such a rig) you were going to hand 4 high or something, that would be the ticket but it would probably need to be stouter due to the weight of 4+ individual boxes.  The DIYs I had was composed of two fairly light boxes.  One straight box with three neo 8s and a column of planar HFs, which I used on a stick for small venues.  And a "downfill" box with two angles that hung from the bottom of the straight box with two more 8s and HF's following the angles.  1/2" mahogany ply and both together were less than 100 lbs.  The stands themselves were probably good for something like 1000lbs, with all the bits good for more than 2000lbs.

But then you have to get back to whether you want to hang 4-6 dual 6 boxes instead of a single SM80 or Noesis on a stick.  With DuraTruss 5200 crank stands and BT-12 tilters, I can get a pair of DSRs up and pointed down at a crowd of several hundred just fine, in less time, and no liability for DIY.

[Frank Koenig]

Some years ago, I made up similar towers for a system I'd built.  Two rectangular box section extrusions.  I actually found it easier to repurpose rollers made for boat trailers.  I also used a boat trailer winch with 2" webbing as the lifting mechanism.  All these parts are designed to handle 2000lb + boats.  I've torn them down and scrapped the stuff...

Stephen,

Very interesting. It looks like I'm following in your footsteps -- maybe all the way to scrapping these things eventually. To be clear, I'm not interested in "mini line arrays". These stands would be for point-source speakers that are a little too heavy or awkward to tilt up onto a tripod. I see these stands as a replacement for heavy-duty tripods with similar weight and transportability, greater stability when erected, and no direct lifting of the speaker. We'll see.

I did find a "lifting" winch with an automatic brake and a 2 in. wide spool that is suitable for both wire rope and webbing. What I've not been able to find, surprisingly, are 2 in. wide flanged pulleys for webbing. I could machine my own but I'm not really looking for another lathe project. I could use 2" wide rollers and have the webbing slide between fixed guides. Or I could use narrower webbing for which conveyor belt idler pulleys would work well, but then I'd have to modify the winch spool, which is unappetizing. Wire rope makes all this go away. I just hate the way you have to struggle with wire rope each time to get a proper lay started on the spool. Maybe there are some winches with better rope control. I have come-alongs that use a steel clip inside the spool to tame the rope. Something like that... Fun and games.

--Frank

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