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Author Topic: Virtues of "siamese" cables?  (Read 3974 times)

kel mcguire

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Re: Virtues of "siamese" cables?
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2018, 02:09:21 PM »

I have two 25' siamese cables for our band, an acoustic/piano/bass trio. We have Ten inputs. So, this doesn't apply to running sound at events as much as setting up the same rig every time. And our rig can run off one 15a circuit. The siamese cables speed up & clean the setup. I drop a power strip and the keys, bass amp, mixer and peavey IPR amp all plug in. I also employ some IEC Y cables to power up mixer and amp. We use QSC K12 or K10 as mains, sometimes with a Yamaha DXS12 sub. Agreed that the siamese cables are a bit messy to store and the tails do tangle. On regular non-playing gigs I generally home run separate XLR to the speakers and drop ac power. I have found that longer IEC cables (Monoprice) have been really handy however.

I've had to figure that fastest efficient way to set up our sound. Disneyland is a good example of why one needs a streamlined rig. It's a long one-time cart push in from a third of a mile away.
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David Winners

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Re: Virtues of "siamese" cables?
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2018, 02:20:57 PM »

I run Behringer X32 mixers and Turbosound iQ monitors. I have 3-10' and 3-25' Powercon/cat 6 cables to handle power and Ultranet to all the wedges in a daisy chain. Power comes from the rack with the X32s via a Powercon coupler on a short Edison/Powercon pigtail. Works well for us.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Virtues of "siamese" cables?
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2018, 04:46:35 PM »

I make up my own siamese cables.  Like Bryan, I have edisons at both ends so that I can daisy chain them.  Then I use short IEC stubs at the speakers.  Because most speakers have the audio at the top and the power at the bottom, I make the cables with enough offset that hanging from the power input, there's still a service loop/strain relief on the audio connector.  The source end has a corresponding offset and I leave a good 18" of audio from the sleeving breakout.  That gives me plenty of length on the power side to get to a distro/power center, and keeps the area around the audio outputs (stage box or back of side stage board) cleaner.
I often run a power stringer across the front of the stage for pedal boards and the like.  And if the wedges are just going to stay in one place across the front I'll run the sends though the frontline snake with gender reversers and just plug them into the stringer.  But if the wedges are going to get moved around for different bands, moved upstage and down, then the siamese cables make life much easier.  I still use the siamese for the sidefills and drum wedge.  Keeps them out of the power circuits used by the  vintage guitar amps.
I make them myself using SJ power cable and braided sheathing.  Which is thinner and more flexible than the thick molded sleeving used on commercially made cables.  To keep it flexible, don't pull too tight when threading cables though it.  Also, wear gloves as sliding a couple hundred feet of braid though your hands while threading them will tear your skin up.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Virtues of "siamese" cables?
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2018, 09:10:00 PM »

I have said before that "Siamese" cables offer advantage only when used as part of a *system of connection* that starts with co-located audio drive and AC distribution.  I you have to kludge either side of this, you're pursuing a path of silliness of which Monty Python would be proud (Stop us if we're being too silly!).

Using Kirby Y's AC rack as a foundation, consider another 1 space panel with XLR males for your monitor and main signal outputs... or use a box with a form factor like Whirlwind's Mini-6 or DrumDrop boxes so you can leave it patched at the mixer, store in the console case doghouse.  At the gig just pull it out and set it on top of the AC rack.  No room for the box (too much dog already in the house?)?  Multi-pin, like CPC to XLR-F fan out - could be only 2ft or so, and then the Mini box with multi-pin tail to mate at the doghouse.  The down side is cost - how many gigs does it take to pay that back?



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Mike Butler (media)

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Re: Virtues of "siamese" cables?
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2018, 10:47:46 PM »

When I'm out and about, it's usually with an XR18 and active cabs, so siamese cables would be perfect for reducing stage clutter - which is the obvious virtue.

I don't have any, however, as it's additional cost when I already have XLR and power cabling.  There would also be bound to be situations where the cabling wasn't the right length, and so I'd resort to two cables anyway.

As usual the answer is "it depends"...

I have the "M" version of the same thing, so same config, having just migrated from a Studiolive 16.4.2, and consequently re-thinking the whole logistics of it (going from 70 lbs. of rackmixer and ATA case to a little shoebox and an iPad is quite some change). The idea of deploying the main unit as a quasi-stagebox and eliminating the snake has popped up in my head. That in itself might reduce things. In any case, I already have the investment in XLRs and power cabling, and certainly am in no hurry to pay more for bulky and stiff, to say nothing of wrong length tails, etc.
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Dave Pluke

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Re: Virtues of "siamese" cables?
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2018, 08:58:13 PM »

Thanks for the thoughts, everyone!  Have been busy since posting it, but catching up now.

Most of my gigs are run with the console side stage on smaller stages.

Yes, and I should have been more specific as in, the only events for which I'd use my powered speakers at the moment are corporate and other "fancy" affairs, where sound gear should be "invisible" and console will be side stage (or very near).  Speakers either connected directly to the console or to a DSP in the same rack.

My subs are passive, so it's a far from clean proposition at the moment.  I am looking at some powered subs that have powercon and XLR pass-throughs, which would simplify the equation.

Appreciate the ideas on monitor stringers and DIY siamese cables!

Dave
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Virtues of "siamese" cables?
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2018, 09:12:11 PM »

Thanks for the thoughts, everyone!  Have been busy since posting it, but catching up now.

Yes, and I should have been more specific as in, the only events for which I'd use my powered speakers at the moment are corporate and other "fancy" affairs, where sound gear should be "invisible" and console will be side stage (or very near).  Speakers either connected directly to the console or to a DSP in the same rack.

My subs are passive, so it's a far from clean proposition at the moment.  I am looking at some powered subs that have powercon and XLR pass-throughs, which would simplify the equation.

Appreciate the ideas on monitor stringers and DIY siamese cables!

Dave

What, you have mud on your subs or something?  Of all the bullshit "observations" I've received from professional corporate nit-pickers over 30 years, a speaker cable hasn't been among them and "could that have 1 less cable" has never, ever been heard.  Keeping cables neat and tidy isn't a big issue and anyone who cant do that with 2 cables probably can't do it with one, either.

I almost wrote in my post:  Siamese cables at their peak, are terminated into 1 connector (signal and power).  While that can be done at considerable expense I've yet to have any client ask for it.
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Bradford "BJ" James

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Re: Virtues of "siamese" cables?
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2018, 10:33:51 PM »

I have passive and active systems, but I almost exclusively use powered monitors. Mainly for the fact that todays mixers have ample aux outs, and if a band needs 4 mixes, I bring 4 wedges, if they need 7, I bring 7 (assuming proper funding), with no worries of having to bring another amp rack. I run downstage and upstage power stringers so I always have a place to grab a/c, then it’s a simple matter of running an xlr to the box. Personally not a fan of the dual cables, but obviously a matter of what works for you.
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Mal Brown

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Re: Virtues of "siamese" cables?
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2018, 11:38:52 AM »

In my case, for small shows stringer across the stage front with quads for the pedal boards, powered monitors and LED lighting.  Stringer across the back for backline.

Larger shows retain the stringers but I move to passive wedges. 

I always have drum, center front drop snakes and often a far side drop snake.

Given that, no real advantage to Siamese for me.

Seems to me that the Siamese cables represent an opportunity for a
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Connif Boudoin

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Re: Virtues of "siamese" cables?
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2018, 02:21:51 PM »

I use home made hybrids a lot. All powered wedges. I do own JBL VRX not powered but I don't use the hybrids when they are out on a job. Hybrids work well. Male Edison and Female XLR on one end and Female Edison/IEC cable together and Male XLR on the other end. This works well. I have my power distro via a, rack mount strip with a 30 foot cord on the strip, in my rack with the 2 X32 Racks along with Aux and Main distribution for XLRs. All the snakes are pre wired and labeled. This is a fast and quick set up. I can plug the IEC into the powered speaker along with a quad box to power all the stage gear along with XLR for signal. Monitors everywhere so I have power at every monitor. 3 snakes. Two in the back and one in the front. Hybrids if I use a powered PA and none if I don't.
Thanks
Connif
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Re: Virtues of "siamese" cables?
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2018, 02:21:51 PM »


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