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[Ray Aberle]

how ever a tweeter has blown and i need replacments quick, cant wait for warranty repair.

As an aside to your current situation/discussion...

Keep in mind that most manufacturer's warranties will NOT cover failure due to abuse/misuse, but rather only actual manufacturing defects. Powered speaker systems are quite resilient these days, so (other than a manufacturing defect) it takes a LOT to blow their parts out.

You might get a pass on a first repair if it's user abuse that causes the failure, but subsequent repairs they are going to be less eager to repair it for free. So, it would be advisable (if user error was the culprit) to also learn *WHY* this happened and ensure you don't have it happen again in the future.

-Ray

[Thomas Le]

If you need something quick, why not rent in the meantime? Also I don't think blown tweeters are covered in warranty unless there's a defect in the crossover/power amp. JBL will probably say you need to replace the HF driver.

[Luke Geis]

I have never once looked at a PA and said it must sound good. I would be more impressed if I saw one that was tiny and quaint but blew my socks off, than looking at the wall of sound and walking away saying meh.......

Nobody cares about how cool your PA looks if it sounds like ass. And even if it did sound good, you are not doing yourself a service by bringing a PA that goes against the best practices and standards.

While 15" or 12" speakers are just fine either way and neither will be an outright winner in terms of performance when coupled with a sub, you can quickly see how one has a diminishing return. More cost, more weight, no increase in performance and technically inferior sonically; that is what you get with a 15" speaker. Now that is not to say that 15" speakers sound bad, they don't, but the gap in performance and the shortcomings of 15" speakers are well noted.

The point being, don't buy because it " looks " a certain way, buy because it performs a certain way. Sound does not care about aspect ratio and how it looks. You would be surprised to know most people don't care either. I agree with the others though, rent and wait till you can fix what you have. If you are dead set on returning and replacing them, do it for the right reasons.

[andy foster]

I have never once looked at a PA and said it must sound good. I would be more impressed if I saw one that was tiny and quaint but blew my socks off, than looking at the wall of sound and walking away saying meh.......

Nobody cares about how cool your PA looks if it sounds like ass. And even if it did sound good, you are not doing yourself a service by bringing a PA that goes against the best practices and standards.

While 15" or 12" speakers are just fine either way and neither will be an outright winner in terms of performance when coupled with a sub, you can quickly see how one has a diminishing return. More cost, more weight, no increase in performance and technically inferior sonically; that is what you get with a 15" speaker. Now that is not to say that 15" speakers sound bad, they don't, but the gap in performance and the shortcomings of 15" speakers are well noted.

The point being, don't buy because it " looks " a certain way, buy because it performs a certain way. Sound does not care about aspect ratio and how it looks. You would be surprised to know most people don't care either. I agree with the others though, rent and wait till you can fix what you have. If you are dead set on returning and replacing them, do it for the right reasons.

everything you said is correct although i am not choosing some lame speaker here that happens to look good. The choice is a dsr115 or a 745a, the 745a being one of the ugliest speakers ive ever seen but i know its going to sing after all the reading and watching ive done today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ireX_kcQbkk

when i compare my own stock jbl prx712 12" vs jbl 815w 15" i know the 815 sounds better and appears to get louder although ive not had the time for extensive testing, on a seperate note both the 12" models have been back for tweeters and a 15".

im pretty sure either the dsr115 or the 745a will be an upgrade over the current jbl's.

like i said, they happen to have the dsr112 on the shelf aswell so itll be a 4 way shoot out dsr112 dsr115 prx815w rcf 745a - lucky me!

[Ray Aberle]

on a seperate note both the 12" models have been back for tweeters and a 15".

...... you've blown the HF on both the PRX-712s AND a 15" JBL driver?!?

So, it's often mentioned about the Skool of Ye Olde Hard Knocks. You need to figure out WHAT is causing these drivers to go. Most likely, it's pushing them harder than they are designed to do- and until you figure out where your maximum level lies, you will keep doing this. As I mentioned before, abusing speakers is typically NOT covered under warranty, so unless you either are having a string of bad luck with defective drivers, or a warranty repair shop that's all "this totally wasn't Andy's fault!" eventually you are going to start footing a repair bill.

It would be advisable to figure out what's going on before you start encountering those repair bills. :-)

-Ray

[Luke Geis]

Based on this new information, the weak link is not the speakers. The HF driver in the PRX 12" is the same as the one in the 15".

The DSR will not be a significant step up in performance either. The PRX model line is no slouch, but certainly not going to knock the socks off of anyone either. The DSR model line isn't any louder and not any more performance oriented other than a better crossover design. Which one will sound better is probably not really for debate. The DSR sounds great, but the PRX sounds pretty good too. The only major difference between them is that the DSR uses a 2" compression driver whereas the PRX uses a 1.5" CD. The 2" CD in the DSR should be more up to the task, but that isn't saying much seeing as how the peak performance of both speakers is the same and they have the same wattage amplifier.

I have blown all of 3 speaker drivers in my day. One was on purpose and the other two were simply me doing what the client asked for; more more more on a show that ran for 16 hours straight......... There are really only two reasons a speaker pops these days. Either you ask for more than it can do right then and there, or you ask it to work too hard for too long. Time is probably the biggest killer of speakers. These days speakers get so loud that volume isn't really as much an issue anymore, but when we ask a speaker to make a lot sound for a really long time, that is another story.

Modern powered speakers have only a peak SPL rating. So all we know is how loud it can potentially get. When we push the speaker until we see the little yellow limit light start to blink, that is telling us that the limits of the speaker have been reached. It won't get any louder, it will just run hotter and hotter until pop goes the driver. We can only expect to extract perhaps 9/10ths of what the speaker says it will do and for long-running shows that are perhaps longer than 4-5 hours, we should shoot to utilize even less of that potential volume in order to not overheat the drivers. You cannot run a speaker at full output for very long or it simply overheats.

The compression driver of speakers is generally the easiest to pop. It is smaller and less efficient at getting rid of heat. The element doesn't move very much and the heat sinking can only do so much for an object that is not subjected to much in the way of cooling. The CD is always at the top of the box and heat rises. This is why larger CD's do better with heat. They have that much more surface area to dissipate the heat and due to their size can generally handle more wattage.

It sounds as if you have burned through three speakers in pretty short order and are blaming the speaker for its shortcomings? The speaker will only do what you tell it to do. If you tell it to do too much, or too much for too long, it will let you know by simply burning out. You really do need to asses WHY the speakers popped. Another speaker of the same specs is typically not the answer. The DSR's may very well be your answer, but what will you do if you pop that driver too? There is forensics that can tell what made a speaker pop. If you don't think there is a fault detection and logging function inside the amp, you would be wrong. The warranty shop will pull the log and know right away if the speaker was abused, or not. In my experience, DJ's and inexperienced operators who cater to DJ's, are often the ones that see incidents like this; where they burn up several speakers before they learn what the issue truly is. Eventually, they do one of two things. They get a speaker that they can't possibly blow, or they learn how to operate the ones they do have within its limitations.

House music is pretty demanding on a PA system. The constant boom hiss of the kick and hi-hat coupled with lots of synthesizer sounds really work the PA hard. Keep in mind many synth sounds have a really low crest factor, so they work a PA hard when you run them at high levels. I think you were simply asking the PA to produce too much volume, for too long. This coupled with high demand music shortened the life of the drivers. You either have to turn down the PA or get speakers that are much more capable of the demand. I think the DSR's are going to fall victim to the same result. It may take longer, but it will likely still happen. 

[Scott Bolt]

Hey Luke,

To my ears, the DSR112 is significantly better sounding, and gets louder than a PRX.

I have long wondered how good the RCF 745's are though .... so much so that I have even considered cruising down to Ohio to compare with Sean's speakers (I live in lower Michigan), so I am super interested in hearing the outcome.

I am looking forward to hearing the outcome.

FWIW, I have found the DSR112's to be quite resilient to my own stupidity (as well as others).  I once ran one (in a pretty large venue) at full limit for an entire set on accident (the gain got bumped on one when it was put up on the stand and it was on the other side of the venue from where my mix position was).  Not only was the speaker not damaged, it sounded quite good even in hard limit.  Pretty impressive.

IMHO, a properly processed powered speaker should be darned near impossible to hurt by running them into limit.

[Paul G. OBrien]

...... you've blown the HF on both the PRX-712s AND a 15" JBL driver?!?

Same 2408 driver I believe.

Given this statement that the OP made in his first post.. "the music is strictly house music, ive got the bass sorted and just need ear shattering highs"  and this new info I suspect that MI level speakers are simply not up to the job. A typically 1" CD is rated at about 40-50w AES which is up to 160-200w peak but only for very short durations(miliseconds). All of the powered speakers mentioned have more than enough power behind these drivers to vaporize these little voicecoils but we trust that they have limiting in place to protect them, only problem is I doubt the designers ever dreamed these speakers would be subjected to some of the "noise" that passes for music these days.. like sustained synth tones and sweeps at full power. The CD driver in the Art745 is rated at 200w rms/400w peak so it will better handle this program material, it also has a much lower crossover frequency which will make mid/highs more commanding/powerful or in-you-face, something that should be desirable in this case.

Andy, when you go to demo these speakers bring some typical music with you and be sure to high pass all the boxes as they will be used, if you run them full range you will naturally gravitate towards the 15" as they will sound fuller but that is misleading in this case as the low frequency output of the box will not get used and demoing them this way can also mislead you about their midrange clarity.

[Tim McCulloch]

Why does the HF have to be "ear shattering"?  Sounds like a rig, DJ and venue I'd rather avoid.

[Kirby Yarbrough]

Sounds like a rig, DJ and venue I'd rather avoid.

Perzackly.

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