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Author Topic: Beatles cover band and live effects question.  (Read 3875 times)

Kevin Maxwell

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Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« on: August 07, 2018, 11:37:11 AM »

Beatles cover band and live effects question.

I know I occasionally ask this type of question here so here goes again.  :)

I am working tomorrow or Thursday (depending on the weather) with a Beatles cover band. I was listening to some Beatles recordings and was wondering if anyone has a link that suggests how to best and simply, recreate some of the vocal effects live. A list with the effects by song is what I am looking for. It is probably mostly the songs from the Sgt. Pepper’s album that have the weird effect in them. Although just listening to some of them it sounds like for Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds it just involves pushing the reverb on certain parts of the song.

I know the Beatles used a lot of overdubbing in their recordings. I am just looking for the simplest way to make this band sound the best that I can. These types of groups don’t usually have any details of how to do what I want to do. So I am trying to figure that out on my own. So if there is a link where someone has it simply laid out of the effects per song that would really help me. I will be using a Midas M32 console for this show, if that makes any difference.

That is all besides maybe having to bury the vocals in reverb so I won’t be cringing too much when they sing. And where is that live auto tune plugin on the M32 that magically makes them sound like they can actually carry a tune.   ;)

There are all sorts of info on line about how to record overdubs to accomplish some of this. But I am not a recording studio type of guy so I didn’t find that info very useful.   

And even though there song list on their website seems to have every song that the Beatles have ever done maybe they won’t do the ones with the hard to duplicate effects live. But any help world be appreciated.
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Scott Gaines

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2018, 11:52:35 AM »

For Lucy vocals, a light flanger during the first parts of the verses, & a doubler for the 'girl with kaleidoscope eyes'.
Doubler off, delay on with Reverb for the 'cellophane flowers....' section.
Basically Dry for the chorus, maybe light doubling.
 
For George songs, doubler on for his vocals pretty much the whole time.
John songs need doubler and delay.
Paul songs usually need just Reverb, occasional doubling.
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Scott Gaines

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2018, 01:11:20 PM »

As an addendum to the George vocal suggestions, George stopped doubling his vocals after the white album. None of his songs on Let It Be and Abbey Road that I can think of have prominently double-tracked lead vocals.
 
Oh wait! Old Brown Shoe is.
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Dave Dermont

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2018, 02:56:30 PM »

They used a Leslie on a lot of John's vocals.
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Dave Dermont

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Scott Gaines

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2018, 03:48:34 PM »

They used a Leslie on a lot of John's vocals.
Only on Tomorrow Never Knows, if memory serves.
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Scott Helmke

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2018, 05:46:21 PM »

They used a Leslie on a lot of John's vocals.

Magical Mystery Tour era, definitely. I doubt they did that in the earlier records.

I think mostly it's about doubling effects, they double-tracked most of their solo vocals and then somebody invented tape delay "artificial double tracking" just to stop John from complaining so much.   ;D
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Tom Roche

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2018, 06:37:37 PM »

Have you listened to the Magical Mystery Tour isolated studio tracks?  This might give you a better idea of the effects used.
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Jason Glass

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2018, 02:42:38 AM »

Beatles cover band and live effects question.

I know I occasionally ask this type of question here so here goes again.  :)

I am working tomorrow or Thursday (depending on the weather) with a Beatles cover band. I was listening to some Beatles recordings and was wondering if anyone has a link that suggests how to best and simply, recreate some of the vocal effects live. A list with the effects by song is what I am looking for. It is probably mostly the songs from the Sgt. Pepper’s album that have the weird effect in them. Although just listening to some of them it sounds like for Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds it just involves pushing the reverb on certain parts of the song.

I know the Beatles used a lot of overdubbing in their recordings. I am just looking for the simplest way to make this band sound the best that I can. These types of groups don’t usually have any details of how to do what I want to do. So I am trying to figure that out on my own. So if there is a link where someone has it simply laid out of the effects per song that would really help me. I will be using a Midas M32 console for this show, if that makes any difference.

That is all besides maybe having to bury the vocals in reverb so I won’t be cringing too much when they sing. And where is that live auto tune plugin on the M32 that magically makes them sound like they can actually carry a tune.   ;)

There are all sorts of info on line about how to record overdubs to accomplish some of this. But I am not a recording studio type of guy so I didn’t find that info very useful.   

And even though there song list on their website seems to have every song that the Beatles have ever done maybe they won’t do the ones with the hard to duplicate effects live. But any help world be appreciated.
One thing that will drive you absolutely mad is that later in their career they would often alter their tempos and tunings by slight amounts during tracking and speed or slow the tape speed to compensate. This would achieve purposely unnatural timbres at normal speed mixdown.  Good luck in replicating that!!!

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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2018, 01:29:32 PM »

I was getting ready to leave for the setup and was informed that the show is cancelled due to threat of bad weather tonight. It actually looks really nice out right now.

Thank you for all of the replies and the suggestions. It has been relayed to me that they have no particular needs for special vocal effects. Listening to them on YouTube I didn’t hear any of the more complicated vocal effect tunes done by them. Instrumentally they sound pretty good, vocal we won’t talk about that.

I am pretty familiar with a lot of the Beatles tunes. And as I listened carefully to try and figure out how one might replicate some of this live, I would think you would want to have a whole bunch of scenes to make it really work well. And you might even need the score till you had it all down. I assume that a higher end band might do this. This band seems like they would be happy to have some reverb on their vocals.

I just called my boss and asked him to have the band email us a set list. This will enable me to try to figure out what effects I might be able to do on the fly that will help them.   
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Lyle Williams

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2018, 05:16:39 PM »

As a band they probably have worked out the vocal effects already.  I'd expect them to show up with vocal pedals. 

Good to be prepared though!
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Scott Gaines

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2018, 05:20:24 PM »

As a band they probably have worked out the vocal effects already.  I'd expect them to show up with vocal pedals. 

Good to be prepared though!
Yes, hopefully they've got TC Helicon VoiceLive pedals. I have the VoiceLive Play, and it can do all of that stuff.
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2018, 05:58:05 PM »

As a band they probably have worked out the vocal effects already.  I'd expect them to show up with vocal pedals. 

Good to be prepared though!

From the info I have been given and their YouTube videos it doesn't sound like it.

I did get their set list sent to me and I just listened to the songs I had and the remaining ones found the Beatles versions on YouTube and listened to them. I took notes as to what I think might work.

I will talk to the band tomorrow and show them what I came up with and see if they want me to try and use these effects on them or what they want. I have never used a flanger on a vocal so I will have to play with that a little bit and see if I can make it work for LSwD.

And to make things harder tomorrow I am going to test a new EV Dx46 DSP with the FIR filters for the EV QRX212 speakers that we use. We are getting to the location a little bit early and going to listen to one side with the way we have been doing it and one side with the Dx46 and making the decision which way to go for the show. But that is actually another thread I will probably start after tomorrow. 
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Scott Helmke

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2018, 05:09:26 PM »

I did a show a couple years ago with a Beatles tribute one, one that prides itself on recreating specific set lists from notable shows, etc. 

They weren't at all fussy about the exact vocal effects.  They did a really solid job with the vocals and harmonies, too.
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Bill Hornibrook

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2018, 05:49:21 PM »

I wouldn't be surprised if the band preferred you to not be George Martin back there, and just did a straightforward job as with any other group. Definitely discuss anything beyond that with them first.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2018, 09:50:24 AM »

I wouldn't be surprised if the band preferred you to not be George Martin back there, and just did a straightforward job as with any other group. Definitely discuss anything beyond that with them first.

Agreed.  While I salute Kevin's initiative and desire to perform an outstanding mix service I tend to think that tribute acts will have/do whatever is needed to replicate the performance elements of their covered artist, as they see fit.

The gurgling vocal treatment in Octopuss's Garden?  I'd expect the act to have that taken care of and not be something they'd expect the local sound person to suss out, for example.

I spent a fair bit of my early mixing career over-producing many acts, often without their direction.  Eventually I decided that I'm mixing songs, not sound, and decided that "first do no harm" is a better, more organic approach to performers and absent specific direction, it's not my job to *produce* them but to reinforce them.
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Scott Gaines

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2018, 10:25:10 AM »

Sage advice. Good call.
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2018, 01:40:00 PM »

I talked to the Band during setup and I showed them (on their set list with my notes) what I had in mind based on my listening to recordings of the Beatles. They wanted me to do whatever I could to help them vocally. At my suggestion we agreed that for LSwD I wouldn’t try the initial effect because we wouldn’t have time to rehear it. This wasn’t the kind of group that came prepared for any kind of vocal effects.

I am usually a purist as in what the band gives me is what I try to give the audience with a little bit of reverb when appropriate. I was very active with the effect changes during this show. Nothing but compliments. The band was thrilled. 

The show went very well the promoter didn’t even cut them off at the usual stop time, they went about 20minutes over time. It was just fine with me. This was a rain date from the night before. We had a big crowd like we usually have for one of these show. I have never actually counted the crowd at one of these shows. The area is about 33,000 square feet. I figured that out with Google Maps and the measure distance feature. If I had to guess there may have been between 1500-2000 people there last night. There may have been more.

So thank you for all of your help and suggestions it really helped.
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2018, 01:41:06 PM »

BTW they didn't do Octopuses Garden.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2018, 03:36:02 PM »

BTW they didn't do Octopuses Garden.

You had to go and ruin it for me... ;)
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"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

Scott Holtzman

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2018, 03:47:29 PM »

You had to go and ruin it for me... ;)

Tim is still beside himself that Judy Collins released a new album today.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2018, 03:52:28 PM »

Tim is still beside himself that Judy Collins released a new album today.

Judy is a class act, one I'd buy a ticket for.
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"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

Scott Holtzman

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Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2018, 06:44:19 PM »

Judy is a class act, one I'd buy a ticket for.

I really wasn't kidding (other than having fun with you).  What I am not sure is why that hit my newsfeed.

https://g.co/kgs/4NYp8X

She is a class act.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Beatles cover band and live effects question.
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2018, 06:44:19 PM »


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