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Author Topic: Non-intrusive delay stack for bar gigs  (Read 5840 times)

Gordon Brinton

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Non-intrusive delay stack for bar gigs
« on: July 21, 2018, 01:21:32 PM »

I frequently run sound in bars and social clubs that are oddly shaped. There always seems to be some part of each room that is difficult to cover with mids and highs, thus vocals and overtones aren't clear for people who sit in those over-flow areas, far corners, and cubby holes.

I wish that I could find a tiny column array without a sub that is powered to use as delay fills. I'm talking something super narrow and nearly stealth like, maybe 6 or 8 x 2” drivers. I don't need a sub because my low-end seems to always fill the rooms to the back row. I don't like the idea of a standard size 12"/horn on a stand because barroom space is usually at a premium. If I could tuck something smaller (and short throw) into dark corners or between tables where people aren't likely to trip over them, it would be ideal.

As far as budget, I can't really justify spending big bucks on solving a minor problem for bar gigs, so let's stay under $1000 (US) per box.

Any ideas?
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John Fruits

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Re: Non-intrusive delay stack for bar gigs
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2018, 01:47:16 PM »

I wonder how the small active studio monitors would work? 
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Art Welter

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Re: Non-intrusive delay stack for bar gigs
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2018, 03:41:43 PM »


I wish that I could find a tiny column array without a sub that is powered to use as delay fills. I'm talking something super narrow and nearly stealth like, maybe 6 or 8 x 2” drivers.

As far as budget, I can't really justify spending big bucks on solving a minor problem for bar gigs, so let's stay under $1000 (US) per box.

Any ideas?
Galaxy Audio has powered and passive (16 ohm) 4x 4.5" driver line arrays, perhaps a bit wider at 7" than you'd like, but decent output, polar response and price.

Using 2" drivers would require approximately 8 times the drivers (32) for a similar output level- the cabinet could be thinner, but taller.

Art
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Non-intrusive delay stack for bar gigs
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2018, 04:00:32 PM »

I frequently run sound in bars and social clubs that are oddly shaped. There always seems to be some part of each room that is difficult to cover with mids and highs, thus vocals and overtones aren't clear for people who sit in those over-flow areas, far corners, and cubby holes.

I wish that I could find a tiny column array without a sub that is powered to use as delay fills. I'm talking something super narrow and nearly stealth like, maybe 6 or 8 x 2” drivers. I don't need a sub because my low-end seems to always fill the rooms to the back row. I don't like the idea of a standard size 12"/horn on a stand because barroom space is usually at a premium. If I could tuck something smaller (and short throw) into dark corners or between tables where people aren't likely to trip over them, it would be ideal.

As far as budget, I can't really justify spending big bucks on solving a minor problem for bar gigs, so let's stay under $1000 (US) per box.

Any ideas?

It's a bar, who cares? Most of the patrons who care about the live music do not sit in dark cornersor hidey-holes.  If the person signing the cheque isn't complaining you're just making work for which you are not being paid.
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Don T. Williams

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Re: Non-intrusive delay stack for bar gigs
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2018, 04:14:14 PM »

Limiting the system to a column format will really narrow your choices, but I can understand your reasoning.  There are some "line source" active systems with fairly small subs that might be considered.  The sub elevates the column and act a bass and stand, but has the downside that patrons might be able to futz with it.  An example (not a recommendation for or against) is the TurboSound IQ500, and a pair are in that price range.  Fishman has a guitar amp in a column arrangement and the Alto Spectrum PA (and others) have a similar column arrangement.

Placing a tripod speaker stand anywhere, especially in a bar, is always risky due to trip hazards.  I have seen a few speaker stands with flat bases that look like they might hold a column against a wall somewhat more safely.  Adam Hall showed one at INFOCOMM, but I didn't get the model number. 
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Gordon Brinton

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Re: Non-intrusive delay stack for bar gigs
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2018, 04:24:39 PM »

...Placing a tripod speaker stand anywhere, especially in a bar, is always risky due to trip hazards.  I have seen a few speaker stands with flat bases that look like they might hold a column against a wall somewhat more safely.  Adam Hall showed one at INFOCOMM, but I didn't get the model number.

Yep, I had already considered a flat stand and didn't see the need to ask about that here. Also considering the possibility of a column array with small sub. Thanks.
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Lou Kohley

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Re: Non-intrusive delay stack for bar gigs
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2018, 05:36:25 PM »

I'm actually having something like this built by Mike Thompson at Factor Audio. Mike is on here as well.
It's a coaxial 6" with a double 8 sub with a pole mount. I couldn't find anything that fit my needs and designing speakers was beyond my expertise.

I wanted something super stealthy for weddings and corporate events that didn't need a loud PA but something that sounded good. It also doubles as fills for my larger Danley system.

For delays I would still put out the sub which is 12" wide as a stand for the top. Passive, so one speaker cable run out to it.

Mike is still actually building them so more to follow but I think it will be a killer little rig that doubles as a supplement to a larger rig.

LOU
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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: Non-intrusive delay stack for bar gigs
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2018, 05:58:47 PM »

Fulcrum FA28ac?
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Dennis Wiggins

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Re: Non-intrusive delay stack for bar gigs
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2018, 06:06:53 PM »

Galaxy Audio has powered and passive (16 ohm) 4x 4.5" driver line arrays, perhaps a bit wider at 7" than you'd like, but decent output, polar response and price.

Using 2" drivers would require approximately 8 times the drivers (32) for a similar output level- the cabinet could be thinner, but taller.

Art

Hmm... Has anyone heard/used these?  Might go nicely be passable over a small "fill-in-the blank" powered sub where that "New Look" is desired.

<edit>  Just saw that there is a powered version: LA4D, but it would probably sound very "squishy" when pushed as is only rated at 118dB.

-Dennis
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 06:55:07 PM by Dennis Wiggins »
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: Non-intrusive delay stack for bar gigs
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2018, 09:40:48 PM »

I frequently run sound in bars and social clubs that are oddly shaped. There always seems to be some part of each room that is difficult to cover with mids and highs, thus vocals and overtones aren't clear for people who sit in those over-flow areas, far corners, and cubby holes.

I wish that I could find a tiny column array without a sub that is powered to use as delay fills. I'm talking something super narrow and nearly stealth like, maybe 6 or 8 x 2” drivers. I don't need a sub because my low-end seems to always fill the rooms to the back row. I don't like the idea of a standard size 12"/horn on a stand because barroom space is usually at a premium. If I could tuck something smaller (and short throw) into dark corners or between tables where people aren't likely to trip over them, it would be ideal.

As far as budget, I can't really justify spending big bucks on solving a minor problem for bar gigs, so let's stay under $1000 (US) per box.

Any ideas?

I believe IG1T will be under $1000.  http://www.dbtechnologies.com/en/products/ingenia/ingenia-ig1t-p2346.aspx

Maybe IG2T as well but not sure.  http://www.dbtechnologies.com/en/products/ingenia/ingenia-ig2t-p2347.aspx

I have purchased some IG4T's as Mid/High's and really like them. First gig out next weekend. Mike Pyle here on the LAB is a dealer and recommended. I'm small time as far as purchases compared to most here yet he always takes the time to reply and very fast as far as placing orders and follow up tracking numbers etc.

http://www.dbtechnologies.com/en/products/ingenia/ingenia-ig4t-p2349.aspx

Douglas R. Allen

IG2T  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Whvl31kufbM

Douglas R. Allen
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Re: Non-intrusive delay stack for bar gigs
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2018, 09:40:48 PM »


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