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Author Topic: New Mixer Recommendations  (Read 8332 times)

Chip Smith

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New Mixer Recommendations
« on: July 17, 2018, 05:33:00 PM »

We are looking to replace our 40-channel Soundcraft Series Two mixer because it is 18 years old and it has some problems. I have been unable to find any new analog mixers that come close to what we have now, and I have several concerns about many of the digital mixers.  I have looked at the Soundcraft GB8 and the Allen & Heath GL2800, and both are a major step down from our Series Two, and I absolutely hate having buttons located between each fader. Are there any other analog mixers with 40 or more channels that i should consider?

My main concern with switching to a digital mixer is the lack of faders, and the steep learning curve for the team. The other members of my sound team are in their mid-60's to early 70's and they have all expressed concerns of being able to learn how to be effective on a digital mixer.  Working with layers and only having 24 faders to mix on the fly just won't work for us.  On a typical Sunday we use up 28 channels for the praise band, vocalists, choir, podium, lavaliers, etc., and for Christmas and Easter concerts we use a minimum of 32 channels.

I've been looking at the Allen & Heath Qu-32 Chrome and I like its similarity to analog mixers, although I wish it was offered in a 40 channel version. The recently released Allen & Heath SQ-7 has caught my eye. It seems to be the best fit for us in a digital mixer.  Has anyone had any experiences with the SQ-7 yet, or the smaller SQ-6 or SQ-5?  Are there any other digital mixers mixers with 32+1 faders at a similar price point as the SQ-7?  (Trying to keep it under $7,000)

Thanks in advance.

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Scott Holtzman

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Re: New Mixer Recommendations
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2018, 05:41:41 PM »

We are looking to replace our 40-channel Soundcraft Series Two mixer because it is 18 years old and it has some problems. I have been unable to find any new analog mixers that come close to what we have now, and I have several concerns about many of the digital mixers.  I have looked at the Soundcraft GB8 and the Allen & Heath GL2800, and both are a major step down from our Series Two, and I absolutely hate having buttons located between each fader. Are there any other analog mixers with 40 or more channels that i should consider?

My main concern with switching to a digital mixer is the lack of faders, and the steep learning curve for the team. The other members of my sound team are in their mid-60's to early 70's and they have all expressed concerns of being able to learn how to be effective on a digital mixer.  Working with layers and only having 24 faders to mix on the fly just won't work for us.  On a typical Sunday we use up 28 channels for the praise band, vocalists, choir, podium, lavaliers, etc., and for Christmas and Easter concerts we use a minimum of 32 channels.

I've been looking at the Allen & Heath Qu-32 Chrome and I like its similarity to analog mixers, although I wish it was offered in a 40 channel version. The recently released Allen & Heath SQ-7 has caught my eye. It seems to be the best fit for us in a digital mixer.  Has anyone had any experiences with the SQ-7 yet, or the smaller SQ-6 or SQ-5?  Are there any other digital mixers mixers with 32+1 faders at a similar price point as the SQ-7?  (Trying to keep it under $7,000)

Thanks in advance.

You could come close to a nice used CL-7-48 for that price.  It's really the only mixer that will give you the fader count you want and analog like workflows.

Even the 32 channel digital mixers you are still going to be dealing with layers to get to the group (matrix) masters and bus masters.

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lindsay Dean

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Re: New Mixer Recommendations
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2018, 02:55:26 PM »

There's a used one on reverb 3999
 but there's only 16 faders with eight matrice faders and the mains so that's really no different  for the top layer he's wanting
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: New Mixer Recommendations
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2018, 03:32:41 PM »

We are looking to replace our 40-channel Soundcraft Series Two mixer because it is 18 years old and it has some problems. I have been unable to find any new analog mixers that come close to what we have now, and I have several concerns about many of the digital mixers.  I have looked at the Soundcraft GB8 and the Allen & Heath GL2800, and both are a major step down from our Series Two, and I absolutely hate having buttons located between each fader. Are there any other analog mixers with 40 or more channels that i should consider?

My main concern with switching to a digital mixer is the lack of faders, and the steep learning curve for the team. The other members of my sound team are in their mid-60's to early 70's and they have all expressed concerns of being able to learn how to be effective on a digital mixer.  Working with layers and only having 24 faders to mix on the fly just won't work for us.  On a typical Sunday we use up 28 channels for the praise band, vocalists, choir, podium, lavaliers, etc., and for Christmas and Easter concerts we use a minimum of 32 channels.

I've been looking at the Allen & Heath Qu-32 Chrome and I like its similarity to analog mixers, although I wish it was offered in a 40 channel version. The recently released Allen & Heath SQ-7 has caught my eye. It seems to be the best fit for us in a digital mixer.  Has anyone had any experiences with the SQ-7 yet, or the smaller SQ-6 or SQ-5?  Are there any other digital mixers mixers with 32+1 faders at a similar price point as the SQ-7?  (Trying to keep it under $7,000)

Thanks in advance.
The SQ-7 is a very logical choice on the digital side. Scott's idea of a used Yamaha M7CL-48 may work, but I'd take the SQ-7 myself.

I would suggest that you invest in someone very familiar with whatever desk you go with to help set it up for you and do the initial training.  Most digital mixers these days are very easy to operate once they are setup, but routing and other settings may be frustrating without some prior experience.  Someone familiar with the desk can get you over the initial hump and make your startup frustration significantly less.

If you do want to stay analog, you have your pick of many great boards out there for literally pennies on the dollar.  There are a couple for sale here in the Marketplace:

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,167854.0.html
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Taylor Phillips

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Re: New Mixer Recommendations
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2018, 06:43:20 PM »

Good digital mixers can had for decent prices today, and good analog mixers can be found for dirt cheap.  As far as the learning curve goes, it seems to me that the new digital consoles are a good more intuitive and easier to learn than they have been in the past.

As far as 32+1 digital mixers for your budget, it would appear the options are the A&H Qu-32, SQ7, PreSonus StudioLive 32 Series III, Yamaha TF5, and Yamaha LS9-32.  There may be a few that I don't know about, though.  I only have experience with the Qu-16 and the LS9-32 out of these.  I'd avoid the LS9 if people are afraid of digital because it's a pretty terrible board to learn.  Though, it's a very good product once you know how to use it.  If the Qu-32 is like the Qu-16, then it should be one of the most user-friendly options out there.  If the SQ7 is an improvement on the Qu series, then I think going with it may be a no-brainer.  I can't say much about the PreSonus or the TF series, though as I have yet to come across either in real life.
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Dave Pluke

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Re: New Mixer Recommendations
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2018, 09:28:37 PM »

Are there any other digital mixers mixers with 32+1 faders at a similar price point as the SQ-7?  (Trying to keep it under $7,000)

The DiGiCo S31 *almost* meets your fader count and budget.

Beyond having someone rebuild your Soundcraft or finding a used console with plenty of life left, your pickings will be slim in the analog world.  Still some high end analog consoles being built, but mostly for studio use.

I, personally, love the fader count of the Yamaha M7CL48 but I think you'd find it rather harsh sounding next to your Series Two.  The Yamaha QL5 would allow direct plug and play swap out with your existing console and they sound much warmer than their predecessors.  Gonna bust your budget, though.

Dave


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Mike Caldwell

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Re: New Mixer Recommendations
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2018, 10:33:56 PM »

In going from a 32 channel to a 40 channel board are those additional 8 channels something that would be used at the same time along with the other 32 or just needed for special extra inputs but your over all needed channel count would not exceed 32?
If the total needed channel count does not exceed 32 at any given time using a stage box with a QU32 the extra inputs could remain connected and with a scene change activated and brought into the mixer.

With the QU series mixers there's a little bonus when you use a stage box, you can assign mic inputs from the stage box to the 3 stereo line inputs on the board that would get you a 35 channel mixer!
The stereo line inputs are on the second surface layer though. The QU does have a custom layer.

BradPinder

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Re: New Mixer Recommendations
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2018, 08:05:12 AM »



My main concern with switching to a digital mixer is the lack of faders, and the steep learning curve for the team. The other members of my sound team are in their mid-60's to early 70's and they have all expressed concerns of being able to learn how to be effective on a digital mixer.  Working with layers and only having 24 faders to mix on the fly just won't work for us.  On a typical Sunday we use up 28 channels for the praise band, vocalists, choir, podium, lavaliers, etc., and for Christmas and Easter concerts we use a minimum of 32 channels.


Not a desk recommendation as such, but a comment on switching from analogue to digital; we made the switch two years back, and haven't looked back. if you can try and demo a desk for a week or two and try and cycle the whole team through to see how they take to it. Most on our team could pick up the basics in half an hour or so. I do however completely agree with Tom's comment on having someone familiar with the desk for the initial setup; that is something that takes some time to master, but once its set it doesn't need to be touched if your general service setup stays pretty much the same.
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: New Mixer Recommendations
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2018, 11:33:49 AM »

My main concern with switching to a digital mixer is the lack of faders, and the steep learning curve for the team.

These are two separate things, commonly lumped together.  Quantity of physical faders - exaggerate a bit to think through this; imagine a console with 64 physical faders.  It's large.  Riding the lead vocal with one finger and the lead guitar with another, and try to tweak the snare drum, and the FX returns - you find you need more and longer arms the larger the console grows to.  Then imagine that you can stand in one place, your arms can comfortably cover the 3'-ish wide area right in front of you, and whichever faders or groups of faders you want - can come to you.  One thing the M7CL proved to me back when I mixed on one in a church regularly - more faders does not equal more efficient interaction with a console. 

Similar is interaction with compressors, gates, and FX parameters.  Why have to trace the cables from the console to the FX rack, hope the insert jacks haven't shorted, bury head in a rack tweaking a comp, back to the console to ride the guitar sole, back to the rack to tweak FX, etc?  If I want to add a compressor, I'd rather push the 'In' button and have the compressor come to me, as it were.

Having used both analog and digital - I'll take (modern, non-cheap) digital every time.  Apples to apples - it's due in part to being MUCH easier to use overall. 

As others have said - go digital, don't go cheap, have someone experienced to help with the change.  It's not that digital is more difficult - it's easier, but it's different.  It's easy to confuse 'different' with 'difficult'.  Very different concepts. 

My opinions on what is easy to use - A&H SQ7, A&H GLD (very inexpensive now).  The X32 has some oddities for new users, even though I have to use it often and have trained many new techs on it, I consider it middle of the road (not easy, not overly difficult).  I'd stay away from Presonus and Yamaha, especially older Yamaha (LS9, 01V, etc).  A bit higher cost - Digico S31, the smaller DLive-C models.  Most people assume that what they learned on is easy to use - not true.  Familiarity does not equal ease of use. 

Ease of use is - how fast can you monitor all the parameters, and how fast can you interact with the parameters.  Limited parameters does not equal easy to use.  Familiarity is how little conscious thought is needed to access the parameters, but being able to do the 15 button presses without thinking to get a parameter tweaked without thinking - isn't the same as only having to do 6 button presses, or 2 button presses (the goal), to tweak that parameter.   
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: New Mixer Recommendations
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2018, 11:38:16 AM »

If you have the space for it and all of the outboard gear needed for it you can get some incredible used analog mixers for giveaway prices. like this one. https://reverb.com/item/5685608-yamaha-pm-5000-black
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Re: New Mixer Recommendations
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2018, 11:38:16 AM »


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