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[Chip Smith]

We are looking to replace our 40-channel Soundcraft Series Two mixer because it is 18 years old and it has some problems. I have been unable to find any new analog mixers that come close to what we have now, and I have several concerns about many of the digital mixers.  I have looked at the Soundcraft GB8 and the Allen & Heath GL2800, and both are a major step down from our Series Two, and I absolutely hate having buttons located between each fader. Are there any other analog mixers with 40 or more channels that i should consider?

My main concern with switching to a digital mixer is the lack of faders, and the steep learning curve for the team. The other members of my sound team are in their mid-60's to early 70's and they have all expressed concerns of being able to learn how to be effective on a digital mixer.  Working with layers and only having 24 faders to mix on the fly just won't work for us.  On a typical Sunday we use up 28 channels for the praise band, vocalists, choir, podium, lavaliers, etc., and for Christmas and Easter concerts we use a minimum of 32 channels.

I've been looking at the Allen & Heath Qu-32 Chrome and I like its similarity to analog mixers, although I wish it was offered in a 40 channel version. The recently released Allen & Heath SQ-7 has caught my eye. It seems to be the best fit for us in a digital mixer.  Has anyone had any experiences with the SQ-7 yet, or the smaller SQ-6 or SQ-5?  Are there any other digital mixers mixers with 32+1 faders at a similar price point as the SQ-7?  (Trying to keep it under $7,000)

Thanks in advance.

[Scott Holtzman]

We are looking to replace our 40-channel Soundcraft Series Two mixer because it is 18 years old and it has some problems. I have been unable to find any new analog mixers that come close to what we have now, and I have several concerns about many of the digital mixers.  I have looked at the Soundcraft GB8 and the Allen & Heath GL2800, and both are a major step down from our Series Two, and I absolutely hate having buttons located between each fader. Are there any other analog mixers with 40 or more channels that i should consider?

My main concern with switching to a digital mixer is the lack of faders, and the steep learning curve for the team. The other members of my sound team are in their mid-60's to early 70's and they have all expressed concerns of being able to learn how to be effective on a digital mixer.  Working with layers and only having 24 faders to mix on the fly just won't work for us.  On a typical Sunday we use up 28 channels for the praise band, vocalists, choir, podium, lavaliers, etc., and for Christmas and Easter concerts we use a minimum of 32 channels.

I've been looking at the Allen & Heath Qu-32 Chrome and I like its similarity to analog mixers, although I wish it was offered in a 40 channel version. The recently released Allen & Heath SQ-7 has caught my eye. It seems to be the best fit for us in a digital mixer.  Has anyone had any experiences with the SQ-7 yet, or the smaller SQ-6 or SQ-5?  Are there any other digital mixers mixers with 32+1 faders at a similar price point as the SQ-7?  (Trying to keep it under $7,000)

Thanks in advance.

You could come close to a nice used CL-7-48 for that price.  It's really the only mixer that will give you the fader count you want and analog like workflows.

Even the 32 channel digital mixers you are still going to be dealing with layers to get to the group (matrix) masters and bus masters.

[lindsay Dean]

There's a used one on reverb 3999
 but there's only 16 faders with eight matrice faders and the mains so that's really no different  for the top layer he's wanting

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

We are looking to replace our 40-channel Soundcraft Series Two mixer because it is 18 years old and it has some problems. I have been unable to find any new analog mixers that come close to what we have now, and I have several concerns about many of the digital mixers.  I have looked at the Soundcraft GB8 and the Allen & Heath GL2800, and both are a major step down from our Series Two, and I absolutely hate having buttons located between each fader. Are there any other analog mixers with 40 or more channels that i should consider?

My main concern with switching to a digital mixer is the lack of faders, and the steep learning curve for the team. The other members of my sound team are in their mid-60's to early 70's and they have all expressed concerns of being able to learn how to be effective on a digital mixer.  Working with layers and only having 24 faders to mix on the fly just won't work for us.  On a typical Sunday we use up 28 channels for the praise band, vocalists, choir, podium, lavaliers, etc., and for Christmas and Easter concerts we use a minimum of 32 channels.

I've been looking at the Allen & Heath Qu-32 Chrome and I like its similarity to analog mixers, although I wish it was offered in a 40 channel version. The recently released Allen & Heath SQ-7 has caught my eye. It seems to be the best fit for us in a digital mixer.  Has anyone had any experiences with the SQ-7 yet, or the smaller SQ-6 or SQ-5?  Are there any other digital mixers mixers with 32+1 faders at a similar price point as the SQ-7?  (Trying to keep it under $7,000)

Thanks in advance.

The SQ-7 is a very logical choice on the digital side. Scott's idea of a used Yamaha M7CL-48 may work, but I'd take the SQ-7 myself.

I would suggest that you invest in someone very familiar with whatever desk you go with to help set it up for you and do the initial training.  Most digital mixers these days are very easy to operate once they are setup, but routing and other settings may be frustrating without some prior experience.  Someone familiar with the desk can get you over the initial hump and make your startup frustration significantly less.

If you do want to stay analog, you have your pick of many great boards out there for literally pennies on the dollar.  There are a couple for sale here in the Marketplace:

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,167854.0.html

[Taylor Phillips]

Good digital mixers can had for decent prices today, and good analog mixers can be found for dirt cheap.  As far as the learning curve goes, it seems to me that the new digital consoles are a good more intuitive and easier to learn than they have been in the past.

As far as 32+1 digital mixers for your budget, it would appear the options are the A&H Qu-32, SQ7, PreSonus StudioLive 32 Series III, Yamaha TF5, and Yamaha LS9-32.  There may be a few that I don't know about, though.  I only have experience with the Qu-16 and the LS9-32 out of these.  I'd avoid the LS9 if people are afraid of digital because it's a pretty terrible board to learn.  Though, it's a very good product once you know how to use it.  If the Qu-32 is like the Qu-16, then it should be one of the most user-friendly options out there.  If the SQ7 is an improvement on the Qu series, then I think going with it may be a no-brainer.  I can't say much about the PreSonus or the TF series, though as I have yet to come across either in real life.

[Dave Pluke]

Are there any other digital mixers mixers with 32+1 faders at a similar price point as the SQ-7?  (Trying to keep it under $7,000)

The DiGiCo S31 *almost* meets your fader count and budget.

Beyond having someone rebuild your Soundcraft or finding a used console with plenty of life left, your pickings will be slim in the analog world.  Still some high end analog consoles being built, but mostly for studio use.

I, personally, love the fader count of the Yamaha M7CL48 but I think you'd find it rather harsh sounding next to your Series Two.  The Yamaha QL5 would allow direct plug and play swap out with your existing console and they sound much warmer than their predecessors.  Gonna bust your budget, though.

Dave

[Mike Caldwell]

In going from a 32 channel to a 40 channel board are those additional 8 channels something that would be used at the same time along with the other 32 or just needed for special extra inputs but your over all needed channel count would not exceed 32?
If the total needed channel count does not exceed 32 at any given time using a stage box with a QU32 the extra inputs could remain connected and with a scene change activated and brought into the mixer.

With the QU series mixers there's a little bonus when you use a stage box, you can assign mic inputs from the stage box to the 3 stereo line inputs on the board that would get you a 35 channel mixer!
The stereo line inputs are on the second surface layer though. The QU does have a custom layer.

[BradPinder]

My main concern with switching to a digital mixer is the lack of faders, and the steep learning curve for the team. The other members of my sound team are in their mid-60's to early 70's and they have all expressed concerns of being able to learn how to be effective on a digital mixer.  Working with layers and only having 24 faders to mix on the fly just won't work for us.  On a typical Sunday we use up 28 channels for the praise band, vocalists, choir, podium, lavaliers, etc., and for Christmas and Easter concerts we use a minimum of 32 channels.

Not a desk recommendation as such, but a comment on switching from analogue to digital; we made the switch two years back, and haven't looked back. if you can try and demo a desk for a week or two and try and cycle the whole team through to see how they take to it. Most on our team could pick up the basics in half an hour or so. I do however completely agree with Tom's comment on having someone familiar with the desk for the initial setup; that is something that takes some time to master, but once its set it doesn't need to be touched if your general service setup stays pretty much the same.

[Caleb Dueck]

My main concern with switching to a digital mixer is the lack of faders, and the steep learning curve for the team.

These are two separate things, commonly lumped together.  Quantity of physical faders - exaggerate a bit to think through this; imagine a console with 64 physical faders.  It's large.  Riding the lead vocal with one finger and the lead guitar with another, and try to tweak the snare drum, and the FX returns - you find you need more and longer arms the larger the console grows to.  Then imagine that you can stand in one place, your arms can comfortably cover the 3'-ish wide area right in front of you, and whichever faders or groups of faders you want - can come to you.  One thing the M7CL proved to me back when I mixed on one in a church regularly - more faders does not equal more efficient interaction with a console. 

Similar is interaction with compressors, gates, and FX parameters.  Why have to trace the cables from the console to the FX rack, hope the insert jacks haven't shorted, bury head in a rack tweaking a comp, back to the console to ride the guitar sole, back to the rack to tweak FX, etc?  If I want to add a compressor, I'd rather push the 'In' button and have the compressor come to me, as it were.

Having used both analog and digital - I'll take (modern, non-cheap) digital every time.  Apples to apples - it's due in part to being MUCH easier to use overall. 

As others have said - go digital, don't go cheap, have someone experienced to help with the change.  It's not that digital is more difficult - it's easier, but it's different.  It's easy to confuse 'different' with 'difficult'.  Very different concepts. 

My opinions on what is easy to use - A&H SQ7, A&H GLD (very inexpensive now).  The X32 has some oddities for new users, even though I have to use it often and have trained many new techs on it, I consider it middle of the road (not easy, not overly difficult).  I'd stay away from Presonus and Yamaha, especially older Yamaha (LS9, 01V, etc).  A bit higher cost - Digico S31, the smaller DLive-C models.  Most people assume that what they learned on is easy to use - not true.  Familiarity does not equal ease of use. 

Ease of use is - how fast can you monitor all the parameters, and how fast can you interact with the parameters.  Limited parameters does not equal easy to use.  Familiarity is how little conscious thought is needed to access the parameters, but being able to do the 15 button presses without thinking to get a parameter tweaked without thinking - isn't the same as only having to do 6 button presses, or 2 button presses (the goal), to tweak that parameter.   

[Kevin Maxwell]

If you have the space for it and all of the outboard gear needed for it you can get some incredible used analog mixers for giveaway prices. like this one. https://reverb.com/item/5685608-yamaha-pm-5000-black

[Tim Barber]

My main concern with switching to a digital mixer is the lack of faders, and the steep learning curve for the team. The other members of my sound team are in their mid-60's to early 70's and they have all expressed concerns of being able to learn how to be effective on a digital mixer.  Working with layers and only having 24 faders to mix on the fly just won't work for us. 

You might be underestimating your team. Even good changes are stressful at first, but it won't stay that way. We went from a Mackie 32-8 to an X32, and despite initial reservations my very non-technical volunteer team is singing the praises of how much easier the X32 is to use. I don't expect them to know how configure everything, but for basic mixing operations they love it.

[Tim Hite]

PMed you

We are looking to replace our 40-channel Soundcraft Series . . .(Trying to keep it under $7,000)

Thanks in advance.

[Chip Smith]

You might be underestimating your team. Even good changes are stressful at first, but it won't stay that way.

These are two separate things, commonly lumped together.  Quantity of physical faders...

...more faders does not equal more efficient interaction with a console. 

I'm in my 40's, but the rest of the team is in their 60's & 70's having used the same console for almost 20 years. Heck two of the guys still have flip phones. The learning curve is real here.  Sure we probably need some new blood, and we're working on that, but I'd rather not have to replace the bulk of the team at the same time as the mixer. 

As for the fader count, that is mostly for me because I run sound for the big musical services we have a few times a year. It is not uncommon for me to be making slight volume adjustments on up to 23 faders throughout a song.  I mic the string section and woodwinds, as well as the guitars, keys, piano, drums, and percussion, and balance all that with the choir, soloists, & narrator, while competing with the brass section which is not miked. The songs are often played and sung with a lot of dynamics, and the room acoustics add to those dynamics. I make sure everyone is heard, nobody sticks out, and everything is balanced. I can't do that if I have to jump back and forth between layers to access the active channels. Grouping any of the instruments doesn't make sense because there is only one of each type.

[Chip Smith]

In going from a 32 channel to a 40 channel board are those additional 8 channels something that would be used at the same time along with the other 32 or just needed for special extra inputs but your over all needed channel count would not exceed 32?
If the total needed channel count does not exceed 32 at any given time using a stage box with a QU32 the extra inputs could remain connected and with a scene change activated and brought into the mixer.

With the QU series mixers there's a little bonus when you use a stage box, you can assign mic inputs from the stage box to the 3 stereo line inputs on the board that would get you a 35 channel mixer!
The stereo line inputs are on the second surface layer though. The QU does have a custom layer.

Not sure I completly follow. We have a 40 channel mixer now. I can't recall a time where 40 channels wasn't enough. A few times a year more than 32 channels are needed, but typically 20-28 channels are used weekly.

We have 58 XLR inputs in passive stage boxes spread around the stage. We use a passive 40 channel patch panel backstage to patch those to the mixer as needed. We also have 12 wireless receivers, although we typically only have 4 connected for a regular service. So in theory we could use up to 70 channels.

I was originally looking at the A&H Qu-32, even though it would be tight on channels. The A&H SQ-7 was released last month and solves that issue and has the larger form factor.

[Chip Smith]

Thanks for all the recommendations so far. I know there are some real deals in the used mixer market, but whatever we end up purchasing will be new. The combination of various issues with our Series Two, along with its age, has caused church leadership to lose faith in the mixer. They want a new mixer installed before September.

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

I'm in my 40's, but the rest of the team is in their 60's & 70's having used the same console for almost 20 years. Heck two of the guys still have flip phones. The learning curve is real here.  Sure we probably need some new blood, and we're working on that, but I'd rather not have to replace the bulk of the team at the same time as the mixer. 

As for the fader count, that is mostly for me because I run sound for the big musical services we have a few times a year. It is not uncommon for me to be making slight volume adjustments on up to 23 faders throughout a song.  I mic the string section and woodwinds, as well as the guitars, keys, piano, drums, and percussion, and balance all that with the choir, soloists, & narrator, while competing with the brass section which is not miked. The songs are often played and sung with a lot of dynamics, and the room acoustics add to those dynamics. I make sure everyone is heard, nobody sticks out, and everything is balanced. I can't do that if I have to jump back and forth between layers to access the active channels. Grouping any of the instruments doesn't make sense because there is only one of each type.

Chip, I think you'll find with a little practice that you can flip fader layers just as fast or faster than you can reach to the far side of an analog desk.  Caleb is right - having the whole world in 36" of width is the way to go. 

I'm not sure how much outboard gear you're used to working with so forgive me if I'm telling you things you already know, but with digital you get a compressor on every channel.  This significantly mitigates fader tweaking if set correctly.

[Stephen Swaffer]

Thought I posted last night-but I'll chime in on the ease of jumping to digital.

Two and a half years ago we went from an A&H GL3800-48 to a QU-32.  I set it up in a couple hours on Saturday and gave our regular FOH guy a 30-40 minute intro (I myself had never touched a digital either).  He is not a very techy guy.   The next day a man who's family sings and plays a number of instruments (though not that day) owns and runs their own sound system, told me you couldn't tell we were using a new mixer.

I had also commented on it being easier to change faders than reach from channel 2 to 38 accurately, etc.  I also recently set the mixer up to run as a "split" PA during Sunday School-our overflow is used as a SS class.  I have a SS setting that has a mic only in the overflow-press a couple buttons and we are back to business as usual in the brief intermission between SS and church.  As a side benefit, EVERY service gets the same starting point on the mixer-no matter who or what happened the last service, or even in sound check right before a service (of course, a sound check can be saved just as easily if we want to use it).

The QU seems easier for non-sound people.  We have an occasional mid-week funeral that I or a media person can't get to.   Church staff can easily handle prelude and a mic and aren't intimidated by 3000 knobs and switches (that can be accidentally bumped!)

We have an annual Christmas event where I usually need 30-36 channels-I was concerned about fader count myself, but larger desks were out of reach financially. I've learned I never use more than  26 or so concurrent channels-a single stage box lets me have up to 44 connected mics accessible simply with a scene recall.   The QU-32 has been a game changer and I've never regretted it-until the SQ-7 came out-it'll be a few years before I can justify that upgrade. 

[Ken Webster]

Since your original request indicates a preference for analogue, have you considered patching 2 smaller analogue mixers together?  I know our analogue mixer has that option though we have never used it.  We are also close to the point of having to replace but only have 12 stage lines, 2 PCs, 1 DVD and 2 ch RF mic. I tend to share your reservations about digital mixers, there just doesn't seem any pros in it for us.

[Chip Smith]

Thought I posted last night-but I'll chime in on the ease of jumping to digital.

Two and a half years ago we went from an A&H GL3800-48 to a QU-32.  I set it up in a couple hours on Saturday and gave our regular FOH guy a 30-40 minute intro (I myself had never touched a digital either).  He is not a very techy guy.   The next day a man who's family sings and plays a number of instruments (though not that day) owns and runs their own sound system, told me you couldn't tell we were using a new mixer.

I had also commented on it being easier to change faders than reach from channel 2 to 38 accurately, etc.  I also recently set the mixer up to run as a "split" PA during Sunday School-our overflow is used as a SS class.  I have a SS setting that has a mic only in the overflow-press a couple buttons and we are back to business as usual in the brief intermission between SS and church.  As a side benefit, EVERY service gets the same starting point on the mixer-no matter who or what happened the last service, or even in sound check right before a service (of course, a sound check can be saved just as easily if we want to use it).

The QU seems easier for non-sound people.  We have an occasional mid-week funeral that I or a media person can't get to.   Church staff can easily handle prelude and a mic and aren't intimidated by 3000 knobs and switches (that can be accidentally bumped!)

We have an annual Christmas event where I usually need 30-36 channels-I was concerned about fader count myself, but larger desks were out of reach financially. I've learned I never use more than  26 or so concurrent channels-a single stage box lets me have up to 44 connected mics accessible simply with a scene recall.   The QU-32 has been a game changer and I've never regretted it-until the SQ-7 came out-it'll be a few years before I can justify that upgrade.

Thanks for sharing this, especially since it seems very close to my situation.

[Chip Smith]

Since your original request indicates a preference for analogue, have you considered patching 2 smaller analogue mixers together?  I know our analogue mixer has that option though we have never used it.  We are also close to the point of having to replace but only have 12 stage lines, 2 PCs, 1 DVD and 2 ch RF mic. I tend to share your reservations about digital mixers, there just doesn't seem any pros in it for us.

I have considered this because there just aren't that many options in analog mixers over 32 channels.  My main dislike of just about all the new analog mixers I've seen is the placement of buttons in between the faders.  That's the way the Soundcraft Spirit mixer in our Family Life Center is laid out and I find it to be a poor design.

[Ken Webster]

I have considered this because there just aren't that many options in analog mixers over 32 channels.  My main dislike of just about all the new analog mixers I've seen is the placement of buttons in between the faders.  That's the way the Soundcraft Spirit mixer in our Family Life Center is laid out and I find it to be a poor design.

Yep agreed, poor confusing design these days.  I also dislike that they tend to have mono, stereo or some variation in channel function, layout or inputs.  I prefer all channel inputs and controls to be identical.  It's simpler that way and there is absolutely no need for stereo channels, you just assign channels to L or R groups if you want that.  Simples!  Our needs are small, we don't ever use all 16 channels.

[Chip Smith]

Thanks everyone for all the helpful info. We ended getting an Allen & Heath SQ-7 which I installed last week. I configured the layout to be similar to our old mixer, and trained one of the gentlemen on the team for a few hours one evening. He was able to run sound for both services on Sunday with no real issues.   

[ProSoundWeb Community]