ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 10   Go Down

Author Topic: Biggest problem in the world right now - driving slow on the highway.  (Read 14415 times)

frank kayser

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1658
  • Maryland suburbs of Washington DC
Re: Biggest problem in the world right now - driving slow on the highway.
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2018, 12:56:54 PM »

So, I recently took a road trip from Chicago to central Florida and back.  Because my return trip wasn't quite as urgent as the trip down, I decided to set my cruise control at a more "efficient" setting.  It's interesting to view the world at 63 MPH on a 70 MPH highway...

SC)  Years ago I spent some time looking for "real" data about highway speeds and fuel economy.  I found some official documentation (I think out of Canada) that suggested that most cars don't get better mileage above 55 MPH and "SemiTrucks" have a turning point around 45 MPH. Obviously head wind/ tail wind and gearing etc have impact.  During this trip my co-pilot found this interesting blog post from the makers of the cell phone app "automatic".  https://blog.automatic.com/the-cost-of-speeding-save-a-little-time-spend-a-lot-of-money-5e8129899fec
Unless I'm reading it incorrectly, their data suggests that the difference between driving 55 and 70 is a 50% loss of fuel efficiency. This was for one specific model of car.  And I assume that driving "aggressively" is part of that difference (those that drive 70 or more on the highway probably drive differently at stop lights too) but it's an astounding number. 


On a lightning trip to Florida, my BMW ’99 528it made 30mph at 75 and 80mph over the entire 1,200 mile distance - are you (the links) suggesting the car could get 60mpg at 55? 60*0.5= 30?  Did I get that wrong?  Even 35mpg is unattainable in that car.  Maybe a flat road, no turns at altitude and overinflated tires.


E)  I'm becoming more anxious for self driving cars.  The biggest reason is to avoid the crazies on the road.  But this fuel economy thing also has me hoping that OTR speeds will drop when we take the emotional/needy/illogical pilot out of the driver's seat. 


It will be a long time before a large enough pool of driverless cars on the road to make any difference, providing the person does not opt to take the controls.  Even longer for OTR speeds will drop legislatively.  On the bright side, following distance will become more realistic, and unless severely underpowered, might be able to hold speed going up a moderate hill.


F) To anyone who is offended that I would choose to drive less than the speed limit, I am truly sorry.  Although I don't believe that the worst thing you can do on the road is drive a little slower, I do recognize that it can contribute to dangerous roadway situations.  I'm not sure how fast I'll drive on long trips in the future.  If I'm totally out of line, please chastise me in this forum so I'll learn my lesson.   
Offended? No. Chastise you? Not my place.  Causes me agita? yup.  My dad drove the DC beltway when the speed limit was 70mph his entire career. He never exceeded 45mph.  His right.  Really.  Funny that every car we owned during that period had some sort of damage to the rear of his car - some more than once - in what he explained as parking lot incidents where someone pulled in fast and hit him when he was parked.  The VW Squareback was folded down over two inches at the bumper with the bend point at the rear wheel-wells. Parking lot, indeed.  Contributory negligence?


Consider: https://phys.org/news/2007-12-traffic-mystery-mathematicians.html


As a motorcyclist, the two-second rule is gospel, three seconds on dodgy road conditions. Of course, I match the speed of the faster drivers that are not lane-hopping to keep folks off the rear tire.  I don’t hang out next to cages, or trucks - speed up to a gap beside me. Always open.  Defensive driving.  Driving to stay alive.  In this case, speed saves.  That same driving carries over to the car.  What with all that practice, and my lightbulb reflexes, I've stayed out of trouble.


Proper following distance is something most motorists know nothing of.  I’ve got a new VW with the assisted driving stuff, including adaptive cruise control and blind spot warning.  I got into it this weekend with a friend about the adaptive speed control - his claim was that the gap was too large, and folks were always pulling in front of him, dropping him back further and in the traffic.  In his car, it is turned off.  I have other problems with the adaptive speed control, but that's for another time.


On a trip to Ohio with friends (we’re towing a small, flat trailer), he would constantly “yell” at his wife to “give him a fender” meaning pull up on the car next to her and close the gap so that person couldn’t move over.  Yeah.  Really nice.


Consider the modern GPS.  It may give you 1/2 mile warning about an upcoming exit - but in traffic where everyone gives the other a fender, how does one navigate to the exit in 30 seconds - that is after five minutes ago, the damned thing said to be in the left lane.


I’ve mentioned the ridiculously slow, mathematical analysis of slowdowns without cause, and the aggressive drivers (though THEY wouldn’t admit it…). And following distances. A new subject that galls me to no end is the “Hill Delay”.  Starts with a dead-foot driver that will slow down 5, 10, 15, even 20mph going up a moderate hill.  Then the accordion effect starts.  Drivers slow down, reduce their already inadequate following distances, and that propagates back down the hill. Drivers start changing lanes, exacerbating the slowdowns.
 
In the meantime, the slow car has crested the hill and is now speeding up.  It takes time for that accordion to expand again, and then comes the next hill.  Ol' Dead-foot does it again. In heavy traffic there is no relief going down the hill because all that slowdown crept backwards to the crest of the last hill. Dead-foot has done their damage, blissfully unaware.  See it in action on 95 between Richmond and DC, always worse going north.


Slower drivers also cause the other driver, even at speed limit, to have to change lanes.  Light traffic is no problem.  Moderate traffic and the maneuver becomes more dicy.  Some people can’t look over their shoulder, and some just don’t.  Of course that means everyone in that lane needs to slow down to maintain their (inadequate) following distance.  And then the mathematical analysis linked above starts.


Of course, with the new driver aids on the new cars, things are safer - blind spot warning, adaptive speed control, lane assist.  Well, not really.  Lane assist in many cars has an audible warning plus some type of inane international icon attempting to communicate the driver fault. 
Blind spot warning has a little icon that appears on the mirror that lights when there is a car there. 
Most don’t either don’t see them, or annoyed by the sound.  Some take the car back to the dealer wondering what that intermittent, annoying beeping is - Well, it’s a safety feature they say, and then the driver has that turned off then and there. 


My wife had her VW for a month and saw the little icons in the mirrors but did not know what they were, did not ask, and just ignored them.  Of course she could have turned them off with controls on the steering wheel, but that would have meant she knew what they were in the first place, and had the curiosity to figure out the menuing system provided by VW to control various aspects of the car. To her credit, she did figure out the following too close display, and heeds it.


Also consider - a hose will only flow as much water as the smallest restriction in the hose allows.


I’m sorry.  IMNTBHO, Not keeping up with traffic is dangerous.  ZipZoom through the traffic, while very dangerous, those maniacal drivers are there and gone and no longer an immediate danger once past.  Given the choice, I'd choose the maniac.  I can spot those a mile away.


frank
Logged

David Allred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1904
Re: Biggest problem in the world right now - driving slow on the highway.
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2018, 04:07:15 PM »

My dad was an avid non-speeder.  But he always said back in the seventies when interstates were going more wide spread and Carter put 55 mph in, that when you get near the big cities (he referenced St. Louis) and the hoard started moving at 80... you had better do 80.  Because it was the safer option.
Logged

Stephen Kirby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3006
Re: Biggest problem in the world right now - driving slow on the highway.
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2018, 04:53:20 PM »

For most cars the knee is around 35MPH.  That's what hyper-milers use.  Energy moving the weight and rolling resistance.  Above that aerodynamics come into play more heavily.  According to the built in realtime MPG meter my Subaru BRG doesn't change much from 55 to 80.  But my wife's is250 starts getting affected above 65 and noticeably so above 70.  I imagine my van is a logarithm from 55 upwards.
Logged

Jonathan Johnson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3210
  • Southwest Washington (state, not DC)
Re: Biggest problem in the world right now - driving slow on the highway.
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2018, 10:09:16 PM »

My dad was an avid non-speeder.  But he always said back in the seventies when interstates were going more wide spread and Carter put 55 mph in, that when you get near the big cities (he referenced St. Louis) and the hoard started moving at 80... you had better do 80.  Because it was the safer option.

About 15 years ago I was driving through Calgary in bumper-to-bumper traffic. School buses were doing 80 MPH (not 80 km/h) and holding up traffic.

That was my second-most nerve-wracking experience driving, ever.

(The worst was driving on a solid inch of unsanded glare ice in the Columbia River Gorge from Troutdale to Hood River, Oregon -- a distance of about 50 miles. 15 MPH, bumper-to-bumper, on chains in a 2WD pickup the whole way. My nerves were so shot by the time I got to HR I pulled into a motel for the night, around 5 pm.)
Logged
Stop confusing the issue with facts and logic!

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 7557
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Re: Biggest problem in the world right now - driving slow on the highway.
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2018, 01:28:57 AM »

About 15 years ago I was driving through Calgary in bumper-to-bumper traffic. School buses were doing 80 MPH (not 80 km/h) and holding up traffic.

That was my second-most nerve-wracking experience driving, ever.

(The worst was driving on a solid inch of unsanded glare ice in the Columbia River Gorge from Troutdale to Hood River, Oregon -- a distance of about 50 miles. 15 MPH, bumper-to-bumper, on chains in a 2WD pickup the whole way. My nerves were so shot by the time I got to HR I pulled into a motel for the night, around 5 pm.)
I had a nigjt like that.  Solid ice under the snow,  we had had weeks,of untelenting snow and sub freezing temps in the great Lakes.

I had a PBX down at a 300 room hotel in downtown Detroit,  normally a two hour drive.  I found out the four wheel drive on my truck was broke.  Every minor tweak of the throttle had the back end threatening to come around.  Going over the bridge was the most nerve wracking drive of my life.  I had a CB in that truck and the truckers were a great source of company.

When I got into Detroit I pulled into Denny's and was shaking. 

That had to be a decade ago and seems like yesterday.





Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk

Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Kevin Maxwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1809
  • USA SW CT 46miles from MidTown Manhattan ATCF
Re: Biggest problem in the world right now - driving slow on the highway.
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2018, 10:32:23 AM »

I think it is also partially due to the 'keep your lane' system you have at your side of the pond.

In Europe it is: Drive in the rightmost lane which matches your speed best, and move to the lane left of you to overtake, and then move back to the original lane. So we switch lanes a lot, and learn how to anticipate that.
Overtaking on the right side is one of the heaviest penalized offences, together with keeping too little distance and occupying the leftmost lane unnecessary.

In the USA what you describe is the law everywhere that I am aware of, Keep right except to pass. Since is is a drive on the right country. But it hardly ever is enforced. And usually it is illegal to pass on the right only on roads that are 2 lanes in each direction. My description of this pass on the right is a simplified explanation of the law.

I have no problem if someone wants to keep to the right and drive slower then the maximum speed limit as long as they are driving at least the minimum. Most limited access roads (highways) have a minimum and a maximum. and slower then the minimum and you are a "hazardous vehicle" and should have your emergency lights flashing and get off as soon as you can. This is usually someone who has an issue with their vehicle and is trying to limp off of the road. If you are not able to drive safely at least at the minimum you are to pull over and signal for help. If you are personally not able, or comfortable driving at least the minimum speed for some physical or other reason you are not to be on that road.   

If people in the USA would drive like Geert is describing traffic would flow much better and safer. People used to drive that way. And it still is the law.

I have driven long distances on highways at speeds exceeding the speed limit and have gotten much better gas mileage then some of the statistics that have been referenced here would indicate that I should get. The relationship of speed to gas mileage isn't as some people would like you to believe. I also seem to get better gas mileage when I don't use the cruse control, unless the road is completely flat, because I can anticipate how to respond to the hills.

I thought I had heard that there are some countries that have different classes of drivers licenses. I though it was called a masters drivers license. And if you are qualified there is an indicator on your car and you are allowed to drive faster then others on the road. It does bug me when people weave around other vehicles to get ahead. But if everyone stayed to the right and let those that want to pass go their way there would be less of that. I will admit that it bothers me more when someone is going fast in a piece of junk vehicle that is most likely unsafe at any speed, compared to someone that is driving fast in a car that is made to do those kind of speeds and is doing it in a safe manner.
Logged

Lance Hallmark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 267
  • Tampa Bay, FL
    • Hallmark Events & Entertainment
Re: Biggest problem in the world right now - driving slow on the highway.
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2018, 11:08:59 AM »

I do a lot of driving between day job commute, gigs & personal (40-45k/yr) and I'm definitely one of the faster drivers. If conditions warrant it, I expect other drivers to be doing the speed limit but if you are in the rightmost lane going slower I can accept that. Not doing the speed limit backs up (usually frustrated) drivers behind them, leaving them to tailgate or make rash decisions to get around the slower driver. This leads to a lot more accidents on the road. Everywhere I'm sure, but especially here in FL, many drivers just don't give driving the respect & attention it deserves and many drivers are just completely self centered and selfish. They will stop in the middle lane to make a left turn rather than go down a block and make a U-Turn because they missed their turn. If everyone heeded the law of slower traffic staying to the right there would be less accidents, less congestion and less stressful driving. If you are in a non-rightmost lane and someone is behind you, move over and let them pass. I'd much rather have people who drive faster than me in front of me rather than riding my bumper trying to get past me.
As far as fuel goes, I'd rather have the time than the 2-3mpg extra I could gain by hypermiling. Not getting past the non-attentive drivers can save me 20+ minutes on my commute, which can range anywhere from 1 hr. to 2.25 hrs. Getting home after 7pm when you leave the office at 5pm gets really old. When I do drive slower, it often puts me in a group of people who are generally worse drivers and potentially in more accident type situations - the people who put their brakes on every time they see a car in a turn lane, the ones who stop 20 yards before they are expected to at a light, etc...
Logged
----------------------------------------------------
Lance Hallmark
Hallmark Events & Entertainment
Chamsys, Crown, Danley, EV, JTR, Powersoft, Yamaha

drew gandy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 427
  • Chicago and burbs
Re: Biggest problem in the world right now - driving slow on the highway.
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2018, 11:26:12 AM »

Thanks for all the replies. 

Since most folks don't seem to be going to the link at automatic (no I'm not trying to promote them or anything) here's a graph from their blog.  As I understand it, this graph is compiled from their data from the devices in their user's cars. 




It seems like there are 2 reasons that folks "drive fast":

A)  The time is worth more than the savings.
B)  It's safer. 

If gas were $15/gal and we somehow removed all the problematic drivers from the road, how fast would you drive? 
Logged
Arrogance is usually far worse than ignorance. But every once in awhile they swap places.

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23774
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Biggest problem in the world right now - driving slow on the highway.
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2018, 12:52:12 PM »

The time v. money comparison became realistic when the automobile got faster than horses... and planes were faster than trains or cars.  Up until the retirement of our equine transport system, travel time simply was what it was.

The model also treats fossil fuel as a fungible and infinite resource, things that are not absolute in reality.

That's as far as I'll go.  I smell a thread lock at some point...
Logged
"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

John Roberts {JR}

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17183
  • Hickory, Mississippi, USA
    • Resotune
Re: Biggest problem in the world right now - driving slow on the highway.
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2018, 01:00:46 PM »

Anyone who has ever driven a motorcycle at speed, without a fairing, has a pretty good understanding of wind resistance.

Highway speed and traffic behavior will hopefully be improved as cars become smarter and capable of communicating with each other.

JR
Logged
Cancel the "cancel culture". Do not participate in mob hatred.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Biggest problem in the world right now - driving slow on the highway.
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2018, 01:00:46 PM »


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 10   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.038 seconds with 19 queries.