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[Richard Turner]

Just looking for some spitball advice on accepting a client back. Long story short client and I parted ways about a year and a half ago. I feel it was reasonable amicable in that I straight up told them I could not provide what they were asking for at the fee they offered to pay. I wasn't prepared to re invest in equipment and  continue doing what should have been a 2.5 man show as a solo operation. They also were they type to forever and always drop little extras into the deal, load in an hour earlier than expected. allow someones kid to be the warm up act which would take away my meal time between sound check and show call, just add in a couple extra lights for a better stage show. etc etc.

I know they've been through 2 possibly 3 providers since and play the same games with them. I could use the work but just unsure of how to tactfully explain I did my time being a pushover with them and I'd have to treat them as actual customers this time around if i said yes.

Is it as simple as just saying, we're not friends but I'll work for you understanding I'll be doing exactly what is on the billing sheet and anything more is add on at last minute undiscounted rate sheet/have more cash in hand and pass it over when I get there?

[Milt Hathaway]

Quote them a price that covers the amount of money you need to do the work for that type of client. Add-ons should certainly be line-item additions to the original quote.

Let them be the ones to say 'no'.

[Dave Garoutte]

Definitely raise the price.

[Geert Friedhof]

Do you still have to reinvest?
If so i would pass. It probably isn't going to last for long.

If you take the gig quote them high enough.

[Dave Pluke]

I know they've been through 2 possibly 3 providers since and play the same games with them. I could use the work but just unsure of how to tactfully explain I did my time being a pushover with them and I'd have to treat them as actual customers this time around if i said yes.

Sounds as if they're prime for some "tough love".

Knowing what you know about how they do business, I would suggest setting a price that includes the extra staff and the "oh, by the way" additions.

Then present it with a take it or leave it approach.  No need to mention friendship or the lack thereof.  If you must, state that they know what you can deliver and you know how much that is worth.

Good luck!
Dave

[Franklin Benjamin]

Raise your price.

Last minute add ons come with last  minute add on price.

Charge what you would consider a fair rate for the work (with additional staff) you have to provide and then add on a fee as an inconvenience fee.  (roll it into the price, don't itemize the inconvenience fee  )

Some clients, you know are going to annoy the hell out of you.  Give them nothing extra for the fee.

If they take it great, if they don't, you have to ask yourself how bad do you need the money and is it worth the abuse.

If you start down the road with them, the next show they will try to see what else they can get for free.

And of course treat them like a new customer.  Deposit and Payment in full ...

[Al Rettich]

+1.       

Quote them a price that covers the amount of money you need to do the work for that type of client. Add-ons should certainly be line-item additions to the original quote.

Let them be the ones to say 'no'.

[Roland Clarke]

To be honest with you, if you are not charging enough to take the odd, “I need an extra vocal mic/we need to get in one hour earlier than discussed/there is someone going to sing and play a couple songs on guitar before the main act goes on” request, you are not charging enough full stop. 

A show is a show, short of supply two speakers on poles for two hours for local dignitaries, where you might be able to do a half day price, anything else is going to be a full days work.  Sometimes this is going to be perhaps only 6 hours, great you get an early finish!  If it’s 10 hours it’s a late one.  If it’s over 12 hours you have to consider this is nearly two days, however, many of us in this game are used to this type of show as being a “norm” for the music business and days are priced accordingly.

Don’t get into price games, there is always someone down the street that will charge less.

Work out what you would have to pay trade to get another firm to cover your job and add a margin, say 20%.  You should be charging at least this and more if the job is worth more.

Be fair with your price but have margin enough to cover an 3xtra 58, just a suggestion.

[kel mcguire]

From my own experience there are those clients that will constantly have "by the way"s on every event, some that don't really care about quality (just price), and some that are organized by too many planners. But, there are also aspects of these kinds of gigs that I've not addressed very well in the past too, in the advancing stage. I agree that if you're there, you should be ready for little things that pop up. If those kinds of things are so annoying as to make one want to charge more, not work for the client(s) or bring home angst on every gig, then something could be wrong with how you've advanced the gig, how you set up, and how you bill.

Knowing exactly who and what will be onstage before the job is important. Detailing out for the client what you're prepared to do, and what equipment you're planning on bringing…for what price, often heads off the surprises. If the client knows that there might be additional back-end charges for additional performers, extra fill speakers, lights, longer hours, etc, I've found they tend to nail down the needs fairly accurately all of a sudden. If they don't, then the door has been opened to adding onto your invoice. It's then a matter of can you pull it off...

Whether the gig is a one-man or 3-man gig also has to do with how well your equipment works together, how organized you are and how fast you are. And it has to do with how desperate you are for the job. If I needed a job and it was a two man gig, but the money was one man money, I'd have to decide whether I could get there early enough to be ready. The client wanting an earlier load in when you know it would take a couple hours less time means there is a "by the way" attached.  Beyond that, there's an assessment of whether I could handle the gig by myself once underway. Meals, bathroom breaks, or extreme hustling had to be factored in. Hope is never a good plan..

I'm confused about the "reinvesting in equipment": aspects of this?? Did you not have the equipment needed to do these jobs? Was the client always demanding things that were either not needed or aesthetic? ..."we need a line array" kind of requests?

[Sean Zurbrick]

One word - contract. It's as simple as that. This is a great opportunity to reset expectations and start fresh. Quote them the base price you did their shows for last time around and list what that covers including load in time before show, and the equipment you'll provide. They sign and return it to you. If you are willing to do more for a price, list the things they would typically ask for and a fee schedule for each. If there are things you don't want to do then don't offer those services or even declare in the contract things you aren't willing to provide.

You should be friendly, but this is a business. So when asked at the show for these extra things simply tell them "OK, let me reference the contract to confirm the price for that and I'll get back to you in a minute with the additional charges". You'll either be compensated for your extra effort or they'll pass.

If they don't want to do the contract thing, then either pass, or be clear in an e-mall that X dollars gets them the following gear and time. Then either refuse if they ask for more or do some quick math in your head.

PS - The contract can also get you paid in the event the gig is cancelled. You should ask for at least partial compensation if the gig gets pulled out from under you. I booked around 250 weddings and corporate gigs for my band and would keep the deposit for the gig if cancelled within 180 days unless we re-booked a comparable gig, in which case I would refund the deposit. I kept some, I gave some back. We could only do one gig a day so that's just how it goes.

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