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Author Topic: dLive + Crown i-tech question  (Read 372 times)

josh allman

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dLive + Crown i-tech question
« on: July 10, 2018, 02:11:20 pm »

Hi All.

Recently upgraded to S5000/DM48. Been running SPL TD1's on a i-tech 6000 and 4x TH115s on an i-tech 8000. I believe they both were bought from a crown shop so no ribbon issues etc. The amps have been fine for the 3 years we've had them.

with the m32, I use matrices for crossover, and have the i-tech dsp set for some limiting (protection only)

I know the processing is different in the i-tech vs i-tech hd, so...

1) Is it time to sell these and get something a little newer? If the offset isn't too bad then I can make it work, but the dLive system was a chunk of $$$$ still recovering lol...

2) If I keep them, whats the best way to use them? Thoughts on:

AES vs Analog inputs

Internal processing vs dLive

Thanks!
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: dLive + Crown i-tech question
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2018, 02:45:27 pm »

Hi All.

Recently upgraded to S5000/DM48. Been running SPL TD1's on a i-tech 6000 and 4x TH115s on an i-tech 8000. I believe they both were bought from a crown shop so no ribbon issues etc. The amps have been fine for the 3 years we've had them.

with the m32, I use matrices for crossover, and have the i-tech dsp set for some limiting (protection only)

I know the processing is different in the i-tech vs i-tech hd, so...

1) Is it time to sell these and get something a little newer? If the offset isn't too bad then I can make it work, but the dLive system was a chunk of $$$$ still recovering lol...

2) If I keep them, whats the best way to use them? Thoughts on:

AES vs Analog inputs

Internal processing vs dLive

Thanks!
Normally crossover, EQ, and alignment are done in the amps (or separate DSP).  It's uncommon to do it in the desk, as most desks don't have the same level of flexibility for crossover slopes, and desks move around while amps tend to stay with the speakers they power.  Unless you have a really good reason, I would do your system setup in your amps.

RE AES/analog, they're both fine.  Use whichever is more convenient for you.

RE ITech vs ITechHD - unless you have JBL speakers, you will miss out on most of the benefits of the HD series, which are the V5 system presets.  If it were me, I would use your existing ITechs until they die.
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Steve Litscher

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Re: dLive + Crown i-tech question
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2018, 02:50:56 pm »

Hi All.

Recently upgraded to S5000/DM48. Been running SPL TD1's on a i-tech 6000 and 4x TH115s on an i-tech 8000. I believe they both were bought from a crown shop so no ribbon issues etc. The amps have been fine for the 3 years we've had them.

with the m32, I use matrices for crossover, and have the i-tech dsp set for some limiting (protection only)

I know the processing is different in the i-tech vs i-tech hd, so...

1) Is it time to sell these and get something a little newer? If the offset isn't too bad then I can make it work, but the dLive system was a chunk of $$$$ still recovering lol...

2) If I keep them, whats the best way to use them? Thoughts on:

AES vs Analog inputs

Internal processing vs dLive

Thanks!

Congrats on the dLive purchase - we have a similar config and absolutely love the mixrack and surface - they are really nice sounding!

For processing... I'd use the i-Tech DSP to set your HPF/LPF, delay, etc. The EQs in the dLive are fantastic and very effective. It looks like the i-Tech can accommodate 96kHz AES, so you might want to buy the AES card for your DM48 and send AES direct to your i-Techs.

We use the AES card in our CDM32 and send signal to a Lake LM44, which runs either QSC PL380s, QSC PLD4.5s, or powered gear (depending on the rig we bring). The clarity is like nothing else; we came from an X32/M32 FOH rig, and after the first show, regular show attendees asked if we got new gear - they could hear the difference as well.

So, if the i-Tech are working good for you, my thought is buy the AES card and let the i-Techs handle any DSP. I'm not sure you'd see any difference with an HD or different amplifier. Just my $0.02.

Tim McCulloch

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Re: dLive + Crown i-tech question
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2018, 03:03:45 pm »

Congrats on the dLive purchase - we have a similar config and absolutely love the mixrack and surface - they are really nice sounding!

For processing... I'd use the i-Tech DSP to set your HPF/LPF, delay, etc. The EQs in the dLive are fantastic and very effective. It looks like the i-Tech can accommodate 96kHz AES, so you might want to buy the AES card for your DM48 and send AES direct to your i-Techs.

We use the AES card in our CDM32 and send signal to a Lake LM44, which runs either QSC PL380s, QSC PLD4.5s, or powered gear (depending on the rig we bring). The clarity is like nothing else; we came from an X32/M32 FOH rig, and after the first show, regular show attendees asked if we got new gear - they could hear the difference as well.

So, if the i-Tech are working good for you, my thought is buy the AES card and let the i-Techs handle any DSP. I'm not sure you'd see any difference with an HD or different amplifier. Just my $0.02.

Unless one has an LM-series Lake process or equal and it's necessary to fulfill riders, I've yet to find any particular advantage to AES-3 (in fact, it has higher latency in the ITech than analog...).  I've yet to have a punter notice any difference between AES-3 and analog.

I do not doubt that the combination of devices and multiple AD/DA conversions contribute to audible differences, only that for a simple setup of console-to-amplifiers, the results will not be noticed by your audience.

Unless you need ITech HDs for the JBL V5 presets (and FIR filters) you will probably not notice any benefit from replacing your original ITechs beyond the sticker shock of repair costs.

We sold off our original ITechs when we bought our 52 ITech HD 12k and I never did a side by side comparison except to compare the V4.2 VerTec presets to the V5 VerTec presets.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 03:08:09 pm by Tim McCulloch »
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

josh allman

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Re: dLive + Crown i-tech question
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2018, 01:13:57 am »

Thanks for the feedback. I think I had been told at one time that the processing in the regular I-tech wasn’t very good and to use something else.


Unless one has an LM-series Lake process or equal and it's necessary to fulfill riders, I've yet to find any particular advantage to AES-3 (in fact, it has higher latency in the ITech than analog...).  I've yet to have a punter notice any difference between AES-3 and analog.

I do not doubt that the combination of devices and multiple AD/DA conversions contribute to audible differences, only that for a simple setup of console-to-amplifiers, the results will not be noticed by your audience.

Unless you need ITech HDs for the JBL V5 presets (and FIR filters) you will probably not notice any benefit from replacing your original ITechs beyond the sticker shock of repair costs.

We sold off our original ITechs when we bought our 52 ITech HD 12k and I never did a side by side comparison except to compare the V4.2 VerTec presets to the V5 VerTec presets.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: dLive + Crown i-tech question
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2018, 03:30:47 am »

Thanks for the feedback. I think I had been told at one time that the processing in the regular I-tech wasn’t very good and to use something else.

The processing inside the original ITechs was based on the dbx DriveRack 4800.  There were a total of 64 filters available for each channel and I don't recall how much delay.  Very flexible and powerful for it's time.

All JBL "version 5" presets make use of FIR filters and that capability was not present in the original ITech DSP.  The HD series DSP is based on the BSS London Blu.

We sold our originals because we wanted to get another 5 years out of our VerTec rigs and running V5 presets (requiring ITech HD) make it an easier sell to clients and band PMs.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut
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