ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: LED's and Mover on GFI ??? "Ghosts/Goblins ?"  (Read 421 times)

Patrick Campbell

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 155
    • Jury's Out Rock Band
LED's and Mover on GFI ??? "Ghosts/Goblins ?"
« on: July 02, 2018, 08:36:11 am »

Hey Everyone,

Anyone have trouble with movers/LED slim pars when using GFI outlets ??

This last Saturday I swear we had "Ghosts/Goblins ?" there when we inserted our Chaveut Movers in the line of XLR cables ???

Any experience and solutions would be great !

Thanks again,

Patrick

Logged

TJ (Tom) Cornish

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4087
  • St. Paul, MN
Re: LED's and Mover on GFI ??? "Ghosts/Goblins ?"
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2018, 09:03:39 am »

Hey Everyone,

Anyone have trouble with movers/LED slim pars when using GFI outlets ??

This last Saturday I swear we had "Ghosts/Goblins ?" there when we inserted our Chaveut Movers in the line of XLR cables ???

Any experience and solutions would be great !

Thanks again,

Patrick
GFCIs are pretty binary - either they trip due to leakage current, or they work completely fine.  Standard lighting troubleshooting is prescribed - are you using DMX cables?  Terminators?  A DMX splitter to lessen the number of fixtures on one run?
Logged

Patrick Campbell

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 155
    • Jury's Out Rock Band
Re: LED's and Mover on GFI ??? "Ghosts/Goblins ?"
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2018, 10:19:24 am »

GFCIs are pretty binary - either they trip due to leakage current, or they work completely fine.  Standard lighting troubleshooting is prescribed - are you using DMX cables?  Terminators?  A DMX splitter to lessen the number of fixtures on one run?


Thanks Tom

We use 16 PAR LED Slim Pars and 4 Chavet Movers that work perfect all the time but this last weekend, on GFI's outdoors it was rough and we just removed movers from path

It was VERY moist out and Very humid -  maybe that was the issue  ?

Logged

TJ (Tom) Cornish

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4087
  • St. Paul, MN
Re: LED's and Mover on GFI ??? "Ghosts/Goblins ?"
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2018, 10:37:15 am »


Thanks Tom

We use 16 PAR LED Slim Pars and 4 Chavet Movers that work perfect all the time but this last weekend, on GFI's outdoors it was rough and we just removed movers from path

It was VERY moist out and Very humid -  maybe that was the issue  ?
I would not assume that the GFCI was the factor.  20 fixtures on one run is starting to be a pretty good number - especially if you used standard mic cables rather than DMX cables and no terminator (you haven't said either way).  You would add a lot of safety margin if you got a DMX splitter and broke up your single chain of fixtures. Using real DMX cables with a 110/120Ω characteristic impedance would help as well.
Logged

Patrick Campbell

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 155
    • Jury's Out Rock Band
Re: LED's and Mover on GFI ??? "Ghosts/Goblins ?"
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2018, 10:47:03 am »

I would not assume that the GFCI was the factor.  20 fixtures on one run is starting to be a pretty good number - especially if you used standard mic cables rather than DMX cables and no terminator (you haven't said either way).  You would add a lot of safety margin if you got a DMX splitter and broke up your single chain of fixtures. Using real DMX cables with a 110/120Ω characteristic impedance would help as well.

Thanks Tom - we are doing a private party tomorrow with FOUR 20 amp breakers in a building we are pluggin into with NO GFI's so we are gonna set up and hope all geos well
Logged

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18896
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: LED's and Mover on GFI ??? "Ghosts/Goblins ?"
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2018, 12:04:27 pm »


Thanks Tom

We use 16 PAR LED Slim Pars and 4 Chavet Movers that work perfect all the time but this last weekend, on GFI's outdoors it was rough and we just removed movers from path

It was VERY moist out and Very humid -  maybe that was the issue  ?

Your problem had nothing to do with GFCI in the AC power source.

Thanks Tom - we are doing a private party tomorrow with FOUR 20 amp breakers in a building we are pluggin into with NO GFI's so we are gonna set up and hope all geos well

Again, the AC mains power will make zero, zip, nada difference.  What WILL make a difference is the order of fixtures and which random mic cables you use instead of genuine DMX cables or CAT5e.

To paraphrase Doug Fleenor:  "people pay me many thousands of dollars and fly me all over the world to tell them to use real DMX cables and not put more than 24 fixtures in a DMX string."

TJ is right, 24 fixtures is about the limit and if you're using mic cables you've been one lucky guy so far.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 12:07:44 pm by Tim McCulloch »
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Patrick Campbell

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 155
    • Jury's Out Rock Band
Re: LED's and Mover on GFI ??? "Ghosts/Goblins ?"
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2018, 12:13:09 pm »

Your problem had nothing to do with GFCI in the AC power source.

Again, the AC mains power will make zero, zip, nada difference.  What WILL make a difference is the order of fixtures and which random mic cables you use instead of genuine DMX cables or CAT5e.

To paraphrase Doug Fleenor:  "people pay me many thousands of dollars and fly me all over the world to tell them to use real DMX cables and not put more than 24 fixtures in a DMX string."

TJ is right, 24 fixtures is about the limit and if you're using mic cables you've been one lucky guy so far.

hmmm cool and thanks again Tim
Logged

Dave Garoutte

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1047
  • San Rafael, CA
Re: LED's and Mover on GFI ??? "Ghosts/Goblins ?"
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2018, 12:51:00 pm »

XLR cables work great, until they don't.  Same with terminators.
DMX cable aren't expensive.
A terminator can be had for less than 10 bux.
When it doubt, do it right.
Logged
Nothing can be made idiot-proof; only idiot resistant.

Events.  Stage, PA, Lighting and Backline rentals.
Chauvet dealer.
Inventor.

Patrick Campbell

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 155
    • Jury's Out Rock Band
Re: LED's and Mover on GFI ??? "Ghosts/Goblins ?"
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2018, 01:34:53 pm »

XLR cables work great, until they don't.  Same with terminators.
DMX cable aren't expensive.
A terminator can be had for less than 10 bux.
When it doubt, do it right.

I have terminators just had no probs meant I have never pulled em out

Thank you for the reminder
Logged

Patrick Campbell

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 155
    • Jury's Out Rock Band
Re: LED's and Mover on GFI ??? "Ghosts/Goblins ?"
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2018, 08:14:29 am »

I have terminators just had no probs meant I have never pulled em out

Thank you for the reminder


I also bought a DMX Splitter for back of light board to separate the stage left and stage right -  I plan on using a terminator at the end of each run on each side of the stage.

Anybody else split the signal like this ? 

Logged

TJ (Tom) Cornish

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4087
  • St. Paul, MN
Re: LED's and Mover on GFI ??? "Ghosts/Goblins ?"
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2018, 09:00:11 am »


I also bought a DMX Splitter for back of light board to separate the stage left and stage right -  I plan on using a terminator at the end of each run on each side of the stage.

Anybody else split the signal like this ?
Assuming you mean a Y-cable as mentioned in your other post, no - don't do this.  This will likely be worse than having all your fixtures in a line.
Logged

Patrick Campbell

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 155
    • Jury's Out Rock Band
Re: LED's and Mover on GFI ??? "Ghosts/Goblins ?"
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2018, 11:46:35 am »

Assuming you mean a Y-cable as mentioned in your other post, no - don't do this.  This will likely be worse than having all your fixtures in a line.

Yikes - Ok Tom thanks for the heads up

Logged

Rob Spence

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2823
  • Boston Metro North/West
    • Lynx Audio Services
Re: LED's and Mover on GFI ??? "Ghosts/Goblins ?"
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2018, 12:04:29 pm »

A DMX splitter is an active device. Mine was not expensive and optically splits to 4 outputs with both 3 & 5 pin connectors. It is a 1u rack unit.

Good for you using terminators. However, the terminators are for terminating a 110 ohm transmission line, not audio cables.

Use the right cables, manage how many fixtures per run, use terminators. This is the way to success.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Logged
rob at lynxaudioservices dot com

Dealer for: AKG, Allen & Heath, Ashley, Astatic, Audix, Blue Microphones, CAD, Chauvet, Community, Countryman, Crown, DBX, Electro-Voice, FBT, Furman, Heil, Horizon, Intellistage, JBL, Lab Gruppen, Mid Atlantic, On Stage Stands, Pelican, Peterson Tuners, Presonus, ProCo, QSC, Radial, RCF, Sennheiser, Shure, SKB, Soundcraft, TC Electronics, Telex, Whirlwind and others

Mark Cadwallader

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1088
  • Helena, Montana USA
Re: LED's and Mover on GFI ??? "Ghosts/Goblins ?"
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2018, 12:20:52 pm »


I also bought a DMX Splitter for back of light board to separate the stage left and stage right -  I plan on using a terminator at the end of each run on each side of the stage.

Anybody else split the signal like this ?

I use an optical splitter, and have it as far "downstream" as is feasible. That often means it sits SL or SR backstage.  "Y" cables don't work well for DMX signals. FYI, I always use data cable (not mic cable) for lighting control of multi-channel fixtures.
Logged
"Good tools are expensive, but cheap tools are damned expensive."

Patrick Campbell

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 155
    • Jury's Out Rock Band
Re: LED's and Mover on GFI ??? "Ghosts/Goblins ?"
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2018, 08:44:03 am »

Hey Everyone,

Thanks again for all the great ideas.

We used a terminator at set up on July 3rd and did one unit at a time

This led us to TWO bad cables which are being .

From all the great advice I am ordering DMX cables for all our lights. Wrapping yellow tape at each end

Thanks again
Logged

Mark Cadwallader

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1088
  • Helena, Montana USA
Re: LED's and Mover on GFI ??? "Ghosts/Goblins ?"
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2018, 12:22:31 am »

My audio cables are silver Neutrik XLR connectors with a green ring. My data cables are black Neutrik connectors with a white ring.  No tape to slip off and leave a gooey mess.  No confusion, no question about what is what, just a glance makes it obvious.  (And which cables belong to me.)  It makes sorting cables at the end of a show much easier, too.  Something to keep in mind as you build your cable inventory, perhaps.
Logged
"Good tools are expensive, but cheap tools are damned expensive."

Jeff Lelko

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 854
  • Cape Canaveral, FL
Re: LED's and Mover on GFI ??? "Ghosts/Goblins ?"
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2018, 01:42:53 pm »

My audio cables are silver Neutrik XLR connectors with a green ring. My data cables are black Neutrik connectors with a white ring.  No tape to slip off and leave a gooey mess.  No confusion, no question about what is what, just a glance makes it obvious.  (And which cables belong to me.)  It makes sorting cables at the end of a show much easier, too.

Absolutely.  I use the tiny colored zipties you can buy at Harbor Freight and put one on each cable right below the connector.  Blue is audio, green is DMX, yellow is power.  Easy to see what’s mine and where it goes yet is impossible to fall off or accidentally remove.  Good luck!
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
 


Page created in 0.072 seconds with 21 queries.