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Author Topic: Upgrade danley sm80  (Read 5949 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2018, 04:34:08 pm »

Hi Ivan, two quick questions....

Do you have Armonia specific, or other DSP specific,  presets  .... 
that differ from the platform/DSP-independent presets, that have been on your website?

And are all those platform-independent presets the same as what are in the SC-48?
(I ask because for all your speakers that I've checked they seem to be the same, and I don't want to assume they are the same, if not so)

thx,  mark
I took a transfer function of our DNA presets.

Then matched that transfer function with an X8 using the Armonia software.

There were some HUGE differences.  In most cases the Q was about twice what is should be, and in some xovers (specifically Bessell), the freq was about an octave off.

So yes, they were adjusted as needed to match the amplitude/phase response of the DNA presets
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

bren collins

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Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2018, 09:40:05 pm »

We do have Armonia presets for most of the Danley products if needed.

Where can I find those Armonia presets at? Limiters I believe are set pretty straight forward honestly probably lenient.... but canít help to double check
There seeing peaks of 1200 watts though and sustaining 7-800 Watts. Iím running them into the limiters with most shows. Iíve really been looking into the t24n it seems to be the speaker I need but price is killing me. The goal was to spend 6500 or so for the pair! But so far they are the only ones I think for the bill I really like the 3tx but I see not much of a headroom gain to justify a change in speaker knowing Iíll find a way to push them to there limits as well. Looks and brand of my system doesnít really matter anymore Iím a big fish Iím a little pond all my competitors use jbl rigs typically 2 stx828 per side with matching tops good system but my 4 th118 on a k10 eats those subs alive musically and even spl I would say and the sm80ís are a much longer throw with a better sound. Lately Iíve been stepping up though doing bigger events, the company is known around the area and its name typically gets the job, anytime I get the no S.O.S, I either fly the sm80ís on trussing if it will do the job or I rent 6 per side rcf hdl20ís. Iím typically trusted to bring the proper equipment if I donít have it I rent it the reason for the upgrade is for me to have to do less renting haha.
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bren collins

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Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2018, 09:46:52 pm »

The PM 60/PM 90 is the loudest pole mountable speaker I know of, in the 80 lb range. There are heavier speakers that have had a pole mount, but really...would you want to?

What all goes into building these speakers ?
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2018, 10:29:22 pm »

What all goes into building these speakers ?

Didn't quite make it to reply 14 huh...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2018, 10:45:15 pm »

Where can I find those Armonia presets at?
Send me an email at ivan@danleysoundlabs.com
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Rick Powell

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Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2018, 12:50:38 am »

What all goes into building these speakers ?

For the 90 degree version you need:
BMS 4594 ND HE coaxial horn driver about $700 each
RCF HF950 horn about $150 each
(Two) RCF MB12N351 12" speakers about $300 each
Some Baltic birch plywood, mostly 5/8" or 15mm thickness
Exterior paint or bed liner, steel grille material, and cabinet hardware like pole cup, speakons, etc.

That's most of it to do the speaker itself. Probably $1600 in parts and materials, plus the labor and equipment to put it together. You would want to do this in a well-equipped wood shop or have a cabinet maker do the work for you. Not an extremely hard build for an experienced woodworker, but it might be a bit much for someone's first speaker building project.

You also need an amp with a built-in or separate processor to power the speaker; it's too tight to fit in an amp module to make it a powered speaker.
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2018, 07:04:52 am »

Hey guys Iím looking to upgrade from my sm80ís currently powering them with a powersoft k3 with proper limiters, passive or powered is fine with me if passive Iíll be using a powersoft amp...... my goal is pretty much higher spl they do the job fine as far as coverage most the times but Iím getting requests for very high spl numbers it seems more and more and the sm80ís just canít reach that, I love them they sound great keep tonal quality at a distance but I need more.... I looked at a pair of sh46ís and just not sure want other options. I also  Thought about 4 perside rcf hdl20 but thatís a little more money than Iíd want to spend.... anyways just wanting to see what u guys suggest!

I just started to play around with some new DB IG4T's. They can be stacked in pairs for more output ,138db's for the pair. Light and great side to side coverage.  I actually purchased them for smaller shows but they can put the spl out for sure.  May end up using them as my main speaker.
I'll post a review when I have some gigs on them and try them stacked in testing. 

https://www.facebook.com/371069353615/videos/10154842280948616/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhCYYAsTUd0

Douglas R. Allen

You may also want to take a look at the RCF line.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG6bB1AVTxc&t=171s
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 07:22:15 am by Douglas R. Allen »
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Peter Morris

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Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2018, 07:21:44 am »

For the 90 degree version you need:
BMS 4594 ND HE coaxial horn driver about $700 each
RCF HF950 horn about $150 each
(Two) RCF MB12N351 12" speakers about $300 each
Some Baltic birch plywood, mostly 5/8" or 15mm thickness
Exterior paint or bed liner, steel grille material, and cabinet hardware like pole cup, speakons, etc.

That's most of it to do the speaker itself. Probably $1600 in parts and materials, plus the labor and equipment to put it together. You would want to do this in a well-equipped wood shop or have a cabinet maker do the work for you. Not an extremely hard build for an experienced woodworker, but it might be a bit much for someone's first speaker building project.

You also need an amp with a built-in or separate processor to power the speaker; it's too tight to fit in an amp module to make it a powered speaker.

To put some perspective on the PM90ís performance.  Its design for maximum output and sound quality from 100Hz up, and to be light enough (35-37 Kgs) to be pole mounted.  The low mid-section has an average efficiency of about 105dB per watt per metre with a peak efficiency around 110dB. The HF is about 112dB as is the VHF. The highs are rated 150 watts continuous and 1000 watts peak, the VHF 80 watts 320 watts peak. The 12Ē Mids will take 1300w (650W ea) continuous.

Soooo Ö to match everybody elses exaggerated SPL claims you could say that maximum SPL is 110 + (1300 watts) 31 dB + 6 dB for the peak = 147 dB!  In practice like so many of the quoted max SPL figures, this is nothing like what you can realistically expect in the field.

The PM 90 is however one of the loudest speakers that can be pole mounted.  I think TW Audioís T24N will have similar performance. According to my SIM the T24N will have slightly less low frequency output because it uses a shorter horn when compared to the PM90/60. The T24N is rated at 143 dB peak and has a 3Ē diaphragm compression driver crossed at 1K6 compared to the more powerful 2-way BMS driver in the PM90 which crossed at 700Hz and 6K3 for the VHF.  In practice I expect these two boxes to be similar in terms of SPL.

One of the unique things with thePM90 design is all the drivers are operating their piston range to ensure maximum sound quality. The design is symmetrical and when processed with a Lake LM26 it has a very flat phase response, produces an almost perfect impulse response and can reproduce an acoustic  square wave both on and off both axes.

The SM80 mentioned here also has excellent performance Ė for comparison the mids are about 102 dB and take 400 watts Ė thatís 128dB continuous and 134 peak, as per Danleyís spec, but the efficiency starts to drop off below about 150Hz. Its only about 91 dB at 100Hz, which is about 12-15 dB less the PM90 at this frequency.  Having said that for a small rig where the sub is physically close to the top it probably does not matter and Iím sure its performance in terms of SPL, sound quality and price will be hard to beat 😊

Peter

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Jonathan Betts

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Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2018, 06:54:26 pm »

Thank you Peter for sharing all the info regarding the PM 90. I would love to hear these cabinets some day.

Just wondering what you would consider to be the maximum distance  you would want between subs and tops in a small system like the SM 80/TH 118.  Would this distance have the same effect on the system in both the vertical and horizontal planes?

« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 07:12:21 pm by Jonathan Betts »
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Jon Dees

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Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #39 on: July 02, 2018, 08:56:36 pm »

Bren:

Download EASE Focus and start to download speaker files from Danley and TW Audio and create a typical outdoor venue for yourself. If you are a geographic nerd like myself you can even screenshot a Google Maps view of your outdoor venue and import it to get a reality check on your sound pressure gradients.

Then also find a typical 12"+horn file (QSC K12, for instance is available) to compare to. You can also download RCF boxes like the TTL6A to check it out. Or a silly short line array on a stick can also be modeled.

I have gone thru 10-15 boxes and found the best output/mass ratio to be the IG4T Douglas mentions. There may not be enough, especially in the mid-bass, for your program material, but you can check this with octave modeling in EASE focus.

EASE Focus also assists in visualizing the help that going from the 80* nominal pattern to a 60x40 like the T24N could provide for HF directivity. You should also consider that some of your mids may be currently absorbed in the first couple of rows and additional elevation like scaffolding might help.

HTH,
Jon

I just started to play around with some new DB IG4T's. They can be stacked in pairs for more output ,138db's for the pair. Light and great side to side coverage.  I actually purchased them for smaller shows but they can put the spl out for sure.  May end up using them as my main speaker.
I'll post a review when I have some gigs on them and try them stacked in testing. 

https://www.facebook.com/371069353615/videos/10154842280948616/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhCYYAsTUd0

Douglas R. Allen

You may also want to take a look at the RCF line.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG6bB1AVTxc&t=171s
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