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[Al Rubio, Jr]

(What Would My Fellow Pro Sound Web-Mates Do?)
The rock/pop band I am currently in is in "Serious Upgrade Mode". Digital mixer - check! IEM's instead of wedges - check! (...you get the picture).
Now, it's come time to consider upgrading the actual speaker stacks. One faction within the band comes in with an old but serviceable EV/QSC system (T252+ x2 over T18 x4), while another faction brings with it an older QSC active system (HPR152i x2 over HPR181i x2).
Everyone is on board with at least considering selling all the older stuff and investing in a completely new system, with the ballpark budget being put at $12-15K.
The main "requirements" that are being emphasized are "ease of use" (...which most everyone in the band is taking to mean "active"), and quality of sound/coverage (...coverage, I think might also bring "scale-ability" into play - i.e. for different sized venues).
If you folks had this budget to play around with, what are the best options you might consider from what's available right now?
Advance appreciation for your input!

[Dave Pluke]

Everyone is on board with at least considering selling all the older stuff and investing in a completely new system, with the ballpark budget being put at $12-15K.

Upon first blush, that budget would seem to rule out an array of any usable size (not that that would automatically be the best solution).

But, more importantly, what types of Venues are you trying to cover with what type of program material and at what SPL's?

Dave

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

(What Would My Fellow Pro Sound Web-Mates Do?)
The rock/pop band I am currently in is in "Serious Upgrade Mode". Digital mixer - check! IEM's instead of wedges - check! (...you get the picture).
Now, it's come time to consider upgrading the actual speaker stacks. One faction within the band comes in with an old but serviceable EV/QSC system (T252+ x2 over T18 x4), while another faction brings with it an older QSC active system (HPR152i x2 over HPR181i x2).
Everyone is on board with at least considering selling all the older stuff and investing in a completely new system, with the ballpark budget being put at $12-15K.
The main "requirements" that are being emphasized are "ease of use" (...which most everyone in the band is taking to mean "active"), and quality of sound/coverage (...coverage, I think might also bring "scale-ability" into play - i.e. for different sized venues).
If you folks had this budget to play around with, what are the best options you might consider from what's available right now?
Advance appreciation for your input!

Hi Al.  From a sound quality perspective, the latest crop of speakers from JBL (SRX800P series), Yamaha (DSR series), and EV (ETX series) sound better than what you're using.  They aren't any more scalable than what you currently have.


Scalability is difficult to do well, and you need to define what you mean when you use that word.  My main rig is JBL Vertec 4886/4883, and I believe it's one of the most scalable systems on the market - I can do 4 boxes on yokes from large tripod stands covering 300 people all the way to fairly large flown rigs covering several thousand people...however you need to multiply your budget by about 4 to get started, and to own enough boxes to be able to scale up a lot, maybe multiply by 8.

There are other larger point-source boxes that would fit your budget and sound good - offerings from Danley, Fulcrum Acoustics, and others, however once again, you need to define what you are trying to do, including if you are just upgrading for your own enjoyment vs. solving a business problem.

[frank kayser]

(What Would My Fellow Pro Sound Web-Mates Do?)
The rock/pop band I am currently in is in "Serious Upgrade Mode". Digital mixer - check! IEM's instead of wedges - check! (...you get the picture).
Now, it's come time to consider upgrading the actual speaker stacks. One faction within the band comes in with an old but serviceable EV/QSC system (T252+ x2 over T18 x4), while another faction brings with it an older QSC active system (HPR152i x2 over HPR181i x2).
Everyone is on board with at least considering selling all the older stuff and investing in a completely new system, with the ballpark budget being put at $12-15K.
The main "requirements" that are being emphasized are "ease of use" (...which most everyone in the band is taking to mean "active"), and quality of sound/coverage (...coverage, I think might also bring "scale-ability" into play - i.e. for different sized venues).
If you folks had this budget to play around with, what are the best options you might consider from what's available right now?
Advance appreciation for your input!

What is the size venue you are primarily aiming to cover?  That would seem to be where you want to put the money. Options?
1) Larger events you could rent - not have to worry about storage and obsolescence of the equipment you seldom use.
2.) Buy the additional equipment and rent it out, thus being a profit center.
3.) You could hire or partner with another sound guy with a bigger system. 
4.) You could buy the "basics" of a scalable system now, and either buy later more equipment as your jobs get larger - or again rent what would go with your base system.

[Peter Kowalczyk]

As a musician, having to provide our own production when performing is a pain.  I admit I'm not very good at balancing the left-brain / right-brain requirements that entails, you may be better.  Still, I'd recommend the KISS principle... keep it simple. 

A couple modest self-powered speakers ought to be adequate for bar-scale gigs.  In my opinion, bands shouldn't be expected to provide their own production for larger gigs than this.  For those larger events, partner with a production company - maybe some work/trade to get good rates?. 

Scalability is a nice idea, but expensive and definitely not simple.  Remember- speakers are expensive, bulky, depreciating assets.

[Stephen Kirby]

What are the moving logistics like?  Are folks up for moving 150-200 lbs subs?  Lifts for any sort of array or large top are a couple hundred lbs and bulky as all get out.

I topped out at a pair of DSR112s over 4 Cubo subs (updated take on the T18 with 18Sound drivers).  Do it over again and the JTR Captivator 212 looks good.  2 for indoor gigs, 4 for ballrooms or music in the park.  You can go up a bit to SM80 or 3TX tops but you'll be moving them even for small gigs.  Any more and you'll probably really regret hauling it in for a small room.

A small 3-4 box line array looks enticing but every dash I've heard ground stacked sounded insanely harsh and flying 4 small boxes is more of a pain than the gain.  You may as well hang an SH96HO.  2 small LA elements really doesn't work very well in a small venue.  I've heard 2-3 box hangs of Melodie and for the money you spend, you'd kill them with the JTR 3TX, with much simpler logistics (no Genie stands).

[Mark Cadwallader]

The physical form factors (weight and size) that you are willing to deal with are probably at least as much a concern as SPL and sound quality.  Transportation and setup/strike time will be where you love or hate them over the course of years.

[Al Rubio, Jr]

My thanks to all who've chimed in so far!
As for "scalability", what we have in mind are the range of "typical" potential venues; bars, small to medium ballrooms, and parking lot sized outdoor events. Larger scenarios would probably see us participating in some sort of festival type setup, which usually involve outside audio production companies, so I imagine that we're looking at topping out the "doing it ourselves" audience sizes at about 1,000 people max (...weddings 'round these parts can get to be pretty big affairs!).
Transportation and setup/strike logistics will normally be taken care of by the band itself which, I agree, is another good reason for "KISS'ing" it.
We've been perusing live videos of different systems in action on the interwebz, and so far (keeping the limitations of video in mind) have liked what we hear from the Danley and JTR systems we've seen/heard in action. If you know of other such videos showing the performance attributes of other systems, feel free to share!
Again, much appreciation for your suggestions - we look forward to your continuing .02 contributions!

[Lance Hallmark]

My thanks to all who've chimed in so far!
As for "scalability", what we have in mind are the range of "typical" potential venues; bars, small to medium ballrooms, and parking lot sized outdoor events. Larger scenarios would probably see us participating in some sort of festival type setup, which usually involve outside audio production companies, so I imagine that we're looking at topping out the "doing it ourselves" audience sizes at about 1,000 people max (...weddings 'round these parts can get to be pretty big affairs!).
Transportation and setup/strike logistics will normally be taken care of by the band itself which, I agree, is another good reason for "KISS'ing" it.
We've been perusing live videos of different systems in action on the interwebz, and so far (keeping the limitations of video in mind) have liked what we hear from the Danley and JTR systems we've seen/heard in action. If you know of other such videos showing the performance attributes of other systems, feel free to share!
Again, much appreciation for your suggestions - we look forward to your continuing .02 contributions!

If you do go with the Noesis, I highly recommend getting a pair of the BT12 tilters to better focus coverage area and keep these tall cabs more stable on sticks.
I currently use the 3TX for my larger gigs and Yamaha DSR-112s for small-medium ones, both paired with either Orbit Shifter or Yorkville LS801 subs. I'm just 2-4 subs away from being able to double my coverage area.  I also have some EV ZXa1 subs that I will probably swap out for a pair of JTR Captivator 212 Pros for the smaller gigs.

[Dave Pluke]

A small 3-4 box line array looks enticing but every dash I've heard ground stacked sounded insanely harsh and flying 4 small boxes is more of a pain than the gain.

+1

Dave

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