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[Matt Greiner]

I have no qualms about using Peavey gear, but before you double down and buy two more SP218s, you may want to consider that they have a -3dB spec of 51 Hz (anechoic), which is not very low.  On the other hand, they do get pretty loud above that point so, if your musical styles don't require sub-50 Hz performance, then more SP218s are a reasonable way to go.  Switching to the QW series subs would give you a marginal increase in output but a decent amount of low frequency extension.  The QWs are not any smaller though, so they won't solve your problem of trying to get more oomph from not much more trailer space.

I have owned SP218's and QW218's in the past, and if I'm not mistaken, the QW218's are actually larger (by approx 6" in height, can't remember the depth or width).  They also do not have casters, which make them a pain to move around.  Sound quality, I personally felt they sounded much better than the SP line.  I was using a Peavey VSX26 for the processing, and I would recommend one instead of the dbx driverack if you want to stay with the Peavey Cabinets.  There's nothing wrong with the dbx, just Peavey has settings ready to go for their cabinets.

For the small investment of a VSX26, I think you would be pleasantly surprised as to how much better you could get the system to sound.  When I first started, I was doing something very similar to you, running my mains (SP2's) as full range and using the crossover in my sub amp for my SP218's (as they do not have a built in crossover).  I purchased a VSX26, got the correct presets loaded and wow, it was like a totally different system, however, YMMV.  I think you can get a used VSX26 for around $350, and I think that should be your next step before you start adding cabinets or switching amps.

I do agree however, as others have mentioned, that if both of your amps were DSP, it would make things easier, and you might not even have to consider a system DSP controller. 

[Victor Estrada]

The general rule is to have 2-4x as much power going to the subs as you do the tops. In your case you the same amount for each part. Not knowing the specs off hand of the SP4 et all, I would will a good bet that SPL wise, the tops and subs are about even. You can turn down the tops so that the sound is more as you wish ( the balance between subs and tops ), but you risk pushing the subs too far if you need more than what the two you have will put out.

I don't think a Driverack unit will do you much good. The IPR2DSP line has all the processing in it you need. I am not sure what the IPR2 ( non DSP ) unit has for X-over and limiting ( I'm sure it has something ), and I would probably use those on the tops. This will allow you to use the DSP in the other amp to really dial in the subs and keep them in line. I would also consider running the system with subs on an aux. This will help greatly at maintaining energy in the subs for what you really want that energy for.

Folded horn subs are a trade off. A single element folded horn design is about the same output as most dual 18" direct radiating units. Folded horn subs are more bandwidth limited and have a smaller working frequency range. So while it may have more output at a frequency of interest, it typically will have less output elsewhere. The only way to get the output to smooth out and extend with folded horns is to use lots of them. They will typically start going lower and the frequency response will even out, but it requires numbers of them to do that.

Direct radiating subs get a bad rap because they distort more easily and because they have less sensitivity than a horn loaded counterpart. It is not that they can't get loud, it is just that DR subs require more of just about everything to do it. DR subs also have the benefit of a larger working bandwidth. They will typically go lower in frequency response than a folded horn design. So I don't think that getting folded horn subs will inherently take your current system from here to there with less space used. If you really wanted output, you should have went with the QW series.

Touching back on subs on an aux. You have a dual 15" main that gets plenty loud as you say. If you cross them over around 100hz you should be running the subs at about 80hz for their crossover ( whatever works best acoustically ). Having the subs on an aux can free up headroom. Tests I have done show that you can get 3db to as much as 9db of headroom gained back depending on what you are doing. It also allows you to dial in or out as much sub content as desired for any given instrument or song ( again depending on use ).

Invariably the only way you will be able to balance out the PA to have the sub to top ratio you want will be to turn down the tops, or increase the number of subs and subsequent amplification. Most people prefer to have what is called a hay bailed sub region and to do this you have to have more potential sub energy. That means more subs and more power. As I mentioned before the typical goal is 2x to 4x as much potential.

Thank you for your input!! I does really help to know the differences before proceeding with large purchases like these!

The non-DSP amp has a crossover of 100Mhz for subs which makes them sound really good! and I've been using the DSP model for the tops as they do throw some bass, and the DSP has a nice function called MAXXBASS which tricks the brain into thinking there's more bass when there isn't, and about 2 weeks ago I DJed with just the tops and there was plenty of bass for the smaller event. I've hired this guy with a set of 4 FHs and while they do get loud, the bass quality isn't as great, the bass sounds dirty, but because the guy has replaced the drivers with cheaper options, I didn't know if that was FHs by design. The SPs do sound punchier and cleaner, but at the expense of length. So yea I've been pushing them to their safe max, but those big places do need more bass for better quality over all, as all I hear are mids and highs at longer distances

[Scott Holtzman]

The non-DSP amp has a crossover of 100Mhz for subs which makes them sound really good! a

You better get a license from the FCC for that bad boy, that's smack in the middle of the broadcast band.

[Douglas R. Allen]

Thank you for your input!! I does really help to know the differences before proceeding with large purchases like these!

The non-DSP amp has a crossover of 100Mhz for subs which makes them sound really good! and I've been using the DSP model for the tops as they do throw some bass, and the DSP has a nice function called MAXXBASS which tricks the brain into thinking there's more bass when there isn't, and about 2 weeks ago I DJed with just the tops and there was plenty of bass for the smaller event. I've hired this guy with a set of 4 FHs and while they do get loud, the bass quality isn't as great, the bass sounds dirty, but because the guy has replaced the drivers with cheaper options, I didn't know if that was FHs by design. The SPs do sound punchier and cleaner, but at the expense of length. So yea I've been pushing them to their safe max, but those big places do need more bass for better quality over all, as all I hear are mids and highs at longer distances

You may want to look at the Powered SP line.  I guess they came out with little to no fan fair. Would make your life easier.

https://peavey.com/products/loudspeakers.cfm#series-10

https://peavey.com/products/index.cfm/item/665/119000

https://peavey.com/products/index.cfm/item/665/119002

[Victor Estrada]

You may want to look at the Powered SP line.  I guess they came out with little to no fan fair. Would make your life easier.

https://peavey.com/products/loudspeakers.cfm#series-10

https://peavey.com/products/index.cfm/item/665/119000

https://peavey.com/products/index.cfm/item/665/119002

Only problem is I already got the amps, wires, speakers, etc. And I am a little old school, so I'm here on the learning curve of things. The system sounds really good, and I keep getting compliments as those SP4s sound really clean and can get really loud. But now my thing is adding more subs for a complete full range experience on bigger places.

I recently saw a pair of JBL PRX-418s' for a low price, only been used "twice" and he's willing to let me test them with my amps. Do you guys have any input on these subs? They're advertised as follows:

Frequency Range   35 Hz – 250 Hz
Frequency Response   52 Hz – 120 Hz
System Sensitivity   95 dB SPL (1w@1m)
Power Rating,            800 W / 1600 W / 3200 W (Continuous/Program/Peak)
Rated Maximum SPL   130 dB SPL peak
Nominal Impedance   8 ohms

However, it's using the SWS1000 driver, which is rated at 1000W RMS (2000W musical? Not sure what they mean by that). Anyone know what's going on there? Are these subs any good?

I know my amps won't push them to the max, but they're pretty close. If these are a good match, I'm sure the subs will be enough to keep up with the SP4s right? (I also currently have a SP218)

Thanks again!

[Tim McCulloch]

Only problem is I already got the amps, wires, speakers, etc. And I am a little old school, so I'm here on the learning curve of things. The system sounds really good, and I keep getting compliments as those SP4s sound really clean and can get really loud. But now my thing is adding more subs for a complete full range experience on bigger places.

I recently saw a pair of JBL PRX-418s' for a low price, only been used "twice" and he's willing to let me test them with my amps. Do you guys have any input on these subs? They're advertised as follows:

Frequency Range   35 Hz – 250 Hz
Frequency Response   52 Hz – 120 Hz
System Sensitivity   95 dB SPL (1w@1m)
Power Rating,            800 W / 1600 W / 3200 W (Continuous/Program/Peak)
Rated Maximum SPL   130 dB SPL peak
Nominal Impedance   8 ohms

However, it's using the SWS1000 driver, which is rated at 1000W RMS (2000W musical? Not sure what they mean by that). Anyone know what's going on there? Are these subs any good?

I know my amps won't push them to the max, but they're pretty close. If these are a good match, I'm sure the subs will be enough to keep up with the SP4s right? (I also currently have a SP218)

Thanks again!

NO.  I know nothing about the PRX418 except that it wasn't designed to work with the rest of your gear.

Buy more Peavey SP218 or QW and another 7500DSP.

Or sell off the lot of it and replace with almost any comparable modern speaker system:  self-powered, from the same manufacturer and model line.  Seriously.

[Victor Estrada]

NO.  I know nothing about the PRX418 except that it wasn't designed to work with the rest of your gear.

Buy more Peavey SP218 or QW and another 7500DSP.

Or sell off the lot of it and replace with almost any comparable modern speaker system:  self-powered, from the same manufacturer and model line.  Seriously.

How can speakers be designed specifically for a specific sound system? Isn't power the only thing that matters for compatibility? I've tried looking for used SP218s but nothing shows up locally or within driving distance, and shipping gets more expensive than a new one

[Dennis Wiggins]

...I've tried looking for used SP218s but nothing shows up locally or within driving distance, and shipping gets more expensive than a new one

The SP218 is still a current Peavey product.  Please post a pic of your SP218, so we know what you are trying to match.   The new ones look different, and are available at  AMS (free shipping).

-Dennis

<edit>From the SP218 manual:

Minimum recommended active crossover frequency and
slope for bi-amping (crossing over to a top cab):
100 Hz at 24 dB/octave Linkwitz-Riley Low pass filter

Your non-DSP at 100Hz is just right... that's the "sound really good!" part.

However, you WILL want/need this.

Recommended Infra-sonic Filter:
36 Hz (-6 dB point) 24 dB/octave Linkwitz-Riley High-pass.

-D

[Scott Holtzman]

The SP218 is still a current Peavey product.  Please post a pic of your SP218, so we know what you are trying to match.   The new ones look different, and are available at  AMS (free shipping).

-Dennis

<edit>From the SP218 manual:

Minimum recommended active crossover frequency and
slope for bi-amping (crossing over to a top cab):
100 Hz at 24 dB/octave Linkwitz-Riley Low pass filter

Your non-DSP at 100Hz is just right... that's the "sound really good!" part.

However, you WILL want/need this.

Recommended Infra-sonic Filter:
36 Hz (-6 dB point) 24 dB/octave Linkwitz-Riley High-pass.

-D

Speakers are voiced to work together in a series.  You have a really decent rock and roll system.  It probably sounds "gutsy" for lack of a better word.

I don't think you would be happy at all with the old PRX418's.  All the passive PRX's are just OK.  The powered ones are decent.  However it is at best a lateral move.

If you want to jump up a step sell your gear as a system and get a pair of SRX835P and SRX828P now that would be a huge weight savings and a major sonic upgrade.

[John Schalk]

If you want to jump up a step sell your gear as a system and get a pair of SRX835P and SRX828P now that would be a huge weight savings and a major sonic upgrade.

A month or so back there was a listing in the Saint Louis area for that exact system (used) for $4500.  That price included castors on the subs and covers for all for cabinets!  I didn't buy it because I'm not ready to sell off what I have and start over, but I thought about it.  That is a high quality PA for not very much money.  I got to hear the SRX828P in one of the live music tents at the State Fair last weekend, and a pair of them per side thumped a pretty large beer tent very well.  Tops were 4 x VRX per side.

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