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Author Topic: Peavey System Update  (Read 6997 times)

Victor Estrada

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Peavey System Update
« on: June 18, 2018, 11:32:18 AM »

I had a previous post about my Peavey system and this what I currently have. Just wanted to give an update on my opinion after a dozen gigs.

Peavey IPR2 7500
Peavey IPR2 7500 DSP

Peavey SP4 (X2)
Peavey SP218 (Thinking about 2 more of these)

Gotta say that the overall quality is really good! Sound is good, bass is good, amps are good, absolutely nothing wrong with them!!

Someone mentioned about running the system with a DriveRack, but to be honest, the built in crossovers do the job really well (unless of course you have a more complex connection).

The only problem I've found, is being able to push the system to the max! It gets really loud with those SP4s at half the volume, but of course only one SP218 won't cut it, so thinking about getting 2 more, they're just really hard to find used.

My question is, will folded horns give out more bass? There's only so much I can fit into the truck, so I'm trying to be efficient, no matter the cost
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Luke Geis

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Re: Peavey System Update
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2018, 01:36:18 PM »

The general rule is to have 2-4x as much power going to the subs as you do the tops. In your case you the same amount for each part. Not knowing the specs off hand of the SP4 et all, I would will a good bet that SPL wise, the tops and subs are about even. You can turn down the tops so that the sound is more as you wish ( the balance between subs and tops ), but you risk pushing the subs too far if you need more than what the two you have will put out.

I don't think a Driverack unit will do you much good. The IPR2DSP line has all the processing in it you need. I am not sure what the IPR2 ( non DSP ) unit has for X-over and limiting ( I'm sure it has something ), and I would probably use those on the tops. This will allow you to use the DSP in the other amp to really dial in the subs and keep them in line. I would also consider running the system with subs on an aux. This will help greatly at maintaining energy in the subs for what you really want that energy for.

Folded horn subs are a trade off. A single element folded horn design is about the same output as most dual 18" direct radiating units. Folded horn subs are more bandwidth limited and have a smaller working frequency range. So while it may have more output at a frequency of interest, it typically will have less output elsewhere. The only way to get the output to smooth out and extend with folded horns is to use lots of them. They will typically start going lower and the frequency response will even out, but it requires numbers of them to do that.

Direct radiating subs get a bad rap because they distort more easily and because they have less sensitivity than a horn loaded counterpart. It is not that they can't get loud, it is just that DR subs require more of just about everything to do it. DR subs also have the benefit of a larger working bandwidth. They will typically go lower in frequency response than a folded horn design. So I don't think that getting folded horn subs will inherently take your current system from here to there with less space used. If you really wanted output, you should have went with the QW series.

Touching back on subs on an aux. You have a dual 15" main that gets plenty loud as you say. If you cross them over around 100hz you should be running the subs at about 80hz for their crossover ( whatever works best acoustically ). Having the subs on an aux can free up headroom. Tests I have done show that you can get 3db to as much as 9db of headroom gained back depending on what you are doing. It also allows you to dial in or out as much sub content as desired for any given instrument or song ( again depending on use ).

Invariably the only way you will be able to balance out the PA to have the sub to top ratio you want will be to turn down the tops, or increase the number of subs and subsequent amplification. Most people prefer to have what is called a hay bailed sub region and to do this you have to have more potential sub energy. That means more subs and more power. As I mentioned before the typical goal is 2x to 4x as much potential.
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Art Welter

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Re: Peavey System Update
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2018, 03:02:11 PM »


My question is, will folded horns give out more bass? There's only so much I can fit into the truck, so I'm trying to be efficient, no matter the cost
A folded horn the size of a Peavey SP218 would not put out much (if any) more SPL using a similar driver, and probably would not have as much low end. It may use 3-6 dB less power, which could be an advantage in venues with marginal power.
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John Schalk

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Re: Peavey System Update
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2018, 01:24:58 PM »

I have no qualms about using Peavey gear, but before you double down and buy two more SP218s, you may want to consider that they have a -3dB spec of 51 Hz (anechoic), which is not very low.  On the other hand, they do get pretty loud above that point so, if your musical styles don't require sub-50 Hz performance, then more SP218s are a reasonable way to go.  Switching to the QW series subs would give you a marginal increase in output but a decent amount of low frequency extension.  The QWs are not any smaller though, so they won't solve your problem of trying to get more oomph from not much more trailer space.

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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: Peavey System Update
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2018, 04:28:32 PM »


Someone mentioned about running the system with a DriveRack, but to be honest, the built in crossovers do the job really well (unless of course you have a more complex connection).

I don't remember the subs having a high cut crossover in them or any crossover for that matter. Do you have one? I'm guessing your using the DSP amp for the crossover but checking.
If you do you could try Underlapping the crossover point. Run the tops down to 50hz or so and have the subs go up to 80/90hz.  The Sp4's 2-15's can handle this area and give you a little more punch. Even better if you can do a system alignment at the crossover. If both amps were DSP this would be easy to do.

Douglas R. Allen
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Peavey System Update
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2018, 06:04:51 PM »

I don't remember the subs having a high cut crossover in them or any crossover for that matter. Do you have one? I'm guessing your using the DSP amp for the crossover but checking.
If you do you could try Underlapping the crossover point. Run the tops down to 50hz or so and have the subs go up to 80/90hz.  The Sp4's 2-15's can handle this area and give you a little more punch. Even better if you can do a system alignment at the crossover. If both amps were DSP this would be easy to do.

Douglas R. Allen

You mean overlapping the crossover point, little more tricky to get to play well with an overlap verses an underlap crossover.

Make sure your using the correct inputs for you subs, those have both parallel and direct to driver dual inputs, connected wrong or using the wrong configuration of a speaker cable/amp connection could result in only driving one of the speakers in the cabinet.
Yes I have seen people do that a couple times!
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 08:34:55 AM by Mike Caldwell »
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: Peavey System Update
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2018, 06:19:13 AM »

You mean overlapping the crossover point, little more tricky to get to play well with an overlap verses an underlap crossover.

Make sure your using the correct inputs for you subs, those have both parallel and direct to driver dual inputs, connected wrong or using the wrong configuration of a speaker cable/amp connection could result in only driving one of the speakers in the cabinet.
Yes I have seen people that a couple times!

Yes "overlapped". My dyslexia typing!

Thanks;
Douglas R. Allen
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Rory Buszka

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Re: Peavey System Update
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2018, 08:43:57 AM »

The general rule is to have 2-4x as much power going to the subs as you do the tops. In your case you the same amount for each part. Not knowing the specs off hand of the SP4 et all, I would will a good bet that SPL wise, the tops and subs are about even. You can turn down the tops so that the sound is more as you wish ( the balance between subs and tops ), but you risk pushing the subs too far if you need more than what the two you have will put out.

It might not be such a bad idea for Victor to have as much power going to his mains as he does. I don't think he should downsize his main amps. This is because even though 2x to 4x the continuous power being sent to the mains is being sent to the subs, the crest factor of the signal going to the tops is usually at least 6 dB higher (and normally much, much more) than the crest factor of what's being fed to the subs, which means that for momentary dynamic spikes (think of the killer snare drum whack), much more power is needed to prevent momentary clipping. He already is using monster amps that supply the "program" power rating of the main speakers. The subwoofers he is using are also plenty of rig for pretty much any gig (for a Lounge-class system), and the sub amp is probably appropriately sized to the box.

I would echo the advice in the quoted part of the post above: Let the subwoofers set the performance "limit" of the system, set the limiter in the sub amp's DSP just below the threshold of clipping, and only run the mains loud enough to keep up with the subs. Then when musical dynamics come along (like uncompressed snare or toms) then the system can handle that without clipping.

I did notice a detail that's a little concerning. Only one of the IPR 7500 amps is DSP enabled. I agree that Victor's system can dispense with a DriveRack, as long as there's another means of EQing the system to the to the room it's in, and cutting feedback frequencies. But it would be good to swap out the other IPR7500 for another IPR 7500 DSP, to set the high pass filter for the mains. (The un-DSP'd IPR7500 could drive multiple stage monitors.) A dual-15" top box can become quite "Woofy" if not high-passed, and a good crossover point for that system between tops and subs would be circa 70 Hz. The subs and mains probably would benefit from a 40Hz HPF even if the subs are being used to cover part of the same range as the main speakers, because neither those mains nor those subs are ultra-low bass monsters, so this will free up a good bit of amplifier power to improve impact, and otherwise that power is being wasted trying to flop the cones around at low frequencies that the boxes can't effectively produce. When you're trying to get as much output as you possibly can from that system, it pays to set a judicious high pass filter, even for subwoofers.

There's a sense among new owner-operators that they need to try to get as much output as they can from their system, but not every show calls for ridiculously, painfully loud audio, and actually most of them don't. It's better to set a volume level that is exciting but comfortable for your listeners, and they will even say it sounds "better" in most cases, because it's more enjoyable without an ice pick sticking into their ears. Your gear will last longer, your audience's hearing will last longer, and your working relationships will last longer.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 08:52:48 AM by Rory Buszka »
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Rory Buszka

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Re: Peavey System Update
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2018, 08:44:59 AM »

double post oops
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David Allred

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Re: Peavey System Update
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2018, 05:51:51 PM »

Just to be clear, you have SP4's,  not G or X, etc versions ,  correct?
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Re: Peavey System Update
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2018, 05:51:51 PM »


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