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Author Topic: Sound for restaurant/bar application  (Read 331 times)

Josh Baird

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Sound for restaurant/bar application
« on: June 11, 2018, 09:25:28 am »

Hi all,

First - I hope this is the correct forum, if not, my apologies.  I'm looking for some suggestions/advice on a small-ish bar/restaurant/retail system. The system will be comprised of four zones: retail, bar, patio, warehouse.

Amps/Preamp:

(2) Crown CDi1000 amps (500W/chan @ 70V, 500W/chan @ 4ohm) - 4 channels between two CDi1000's = 4 zones

(1) dBX ZonePro 1260 for preamp/DSP/zone-control (12 input, 6 output)

Sources: TV, PC, Chromecast Audio

Zone1 (Bar/Restaurant):

(6) Episode 650 KIT-ECS-650-PND6-BLK Pendants @ 70V powered by 1 of the 4 available CDi1000 channels

Zone2 (Retail):

(2) Episode 650 KIT-ECS-650-PND6-BLK Pendants @ 70V powered by 1 of the 4 available CDi1000 channels (overkill I know, but I need to have them on a separate channel so I can isolate them into their own zone on the dBX)

Zone3 (Patio):

(2) Episode ES-500-AW-8-WHT @ 8ohm powered by 1 of the four available CDi1000 channels (wired parallel for a 4-ohm 500W load)

Zone4 (Warehouse):

(2) not-yet-decided 8ohm speakers powered by the last available CDi1000 channels (wired parallel for a 4-ohm 500W load)

Does this sound like a fairly typical configuration for this type of application? I'm assuming that most restaurant/bar configs are all mono (even on the non-70V side)? The dBX internally monos each of the 4 available unbalanced RCA inputs, so I don't think I'm concerned with the entire system being mono (even the non-70V 8ohm channels).

I'm not concerned about volume control in each zone - central volume control at the dBX is fine (CCA will also have volume control via mobile device if needed).

I realize that I won't get any feedback about speaker placement/coverage without providing a floor plan of some sort. At this point, I'm just looking for suggestions on equipment selection and configuration.  Am I missing any necessary equipment here?

Thanks!
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David Allred

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Re: Sound for restaurant/bar application
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2018, 12:18:23 pm »

Hi all,

First - I hope this is the correct forum, if not, my apologies.  I'm looking for some suggestions/advice on a small-ish bar/restaurant/retail system. The system will be comprised of four zones: retail, bar, patio, warehouse.


(1) dBX ZonePro 1260 for preamp/DSP/zone-control (12 input, 6 output)

Sources: TV, PC, Chromecast Audio

Does this sound like a fairly typical configuration for this type of application? I'm assuming that most restaurant/bar configs are all mono (even on the non-70V side)? The dBX internally monos each of the 4 available unbalanced RCA inputs, so I don't think I'm concerned with the entire system being mono (even the non-70V 8ohm channels).

I'm not concerned about volume control in each zone - central volume control at the dBX is fine (CCA will also have volume control via mobile device if needed).

I realize that I won't get any feedback about speaker placement/coverage without providing a floor plan of some sort. At this point, I'm just looking for suggestions on equipment selection and configuration.  Am I missing any necessary equipment here?

Thanks!

I'm not so sure that that 1260 monos the inputs, but the 1260M does for sure.  Will you ever  use any of the zones for a private party or event that might need a mic or music player in that zone?  Will you be doing any paging, whether across all zone or single (combo) zones.
Muting zones can be done from the panels easily, but do you need to control volume across all zones?
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Josh Baird

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Re: Sound for restaurant/bar application
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2018, 01:10:32 pm »

I'm not so sure that that 1260 monos the inputs, but the 1260M does for sure.  Will you ever  use any of the zones for a private party or event that might need a mic or music player in that zone?  Will you be doing any paging, whether across all zone or single (combo) zones.
Muting zones can be done from the panels easily, but do you need to control volume across all zones?

Per the ZonePro manual:

Quote
Each pair of unbalanced RCA inputs are
internally mono summed. This is beneficial when
your application requires mono zones. However, when
stereo zones are required and stereo imaging is to be
maintained, each stereo source must occupy two pairs
of inputs (omitting one jack per pair).

This seems to be common across all models unless I'm misunderstanding something.

We could potentially use a single mic at some point.  Don't anticipate having to use paging.  We do need volume control for each zone, but this can be accomplished by using the front-panel of the 1260 (right?).  We'll also be able to use the sources (Chromecast audio) for volume control via mobile device.  If we decide that it's too inconvenient to use volume control on the front-panel of the ZonePro, my thinking is that we can easily add some in-wall ZC volume/source controls.

My main needs for this particular setup are:

Independent source/volume control for each zone.  All zones will be playing a common source for the majority of the time, but there will be occasional needs for the "bar" zone to play a TV source while the other zone(s) play another source, etc.  I think the ZonePro meets all of these requirements - volume control, source selection PER zone, etc. 

We're using 8/4ohm over 70V for the "warehouse" and "patio" zones simply because we already have speakers that can be used for these zones, and I'll have additional amp channels that can be used here.
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David Allred

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Re: Sound for restaurant/bar application
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2018, 03:38:38 pm »

Per the ZonePro manual:

This seems to be common across all models unless I'm misunderstanding something.

We could potentially use a single mic at some point.  Don't anticipate having to use paging.  We do need volume control for each zone, but this can be accomplished by using the front-panel of the 1260 (right?).  We'll also be able to use the sources (Chromecast audio) for volume control via mobile device.  If we decide that it's too inconvenient to use volume control on the front-panel of the ZonePro, my thinking is that we can easily add some in-wall ZC volume/source controls.

My main needs for this particular setup are:

Independent source/volume control for each zone.  All zones will be playing a common source for the majority of the time, but there will be occasional needs for the "bar" zone to play a TV source while the other zone(s) play another source, etc.  I think the ZonePro meets all of these requirements - volume control, source selection PER zone, etc. 

We're using 8/4ohm over 70V for the "warehouse" and "patio" zones simply because we already have speakers that can be used for these zones, and I'll have additional amp channels that can be used here.

The 1260 offers 8 stereo channels and 2 mic/line channels.  If you mono them you use all 8 channels and are left with 2 mic/line channels.
The 1260M offers 4 stereo in to mono sum channels and 6 mic/line channels.  Room to grow with more mics, more playback sources, or both.

Volume control - Do you want the person adjusting the volume to have access to all the programming and settings?  I think there are 3 security settings.  Total access, access to mute zones only from the front panel, and no access.

For source select (4) AND volume control- ZC8.
For source select (4) - ZC3
For volume control - ZC1 (knob), ZC2 (knob + mute), ZC6 (increment buttons).  I am partial to knobs.  Visual reference and quick adjustment.

ZC structure and use can become difficult and complex.  Main thing to remember is that you can't have a volume control in the zone and at a central location.  In other words, 2 zone volume controls = no volume control, and 2 source volume controls = no volume control.

Hope this helped.  Jason at DBX support is a great resource to make sure what you want to happen... can happen.
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Josh Baird

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Re: Sound for restaurant/bar application
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2018, 03:58:18 pm »

The 1260 offers 8 stereo channels and 2 mic/line channels.  If you mono them you use all 8 channels and are left with 2 mic/line channels.
The 1260M offers 4 stereo in to mono sum channels and 6 mic/line channels.  Room to grow with more mics, more playback sources, or both.

Volume control - Do you want the person adjusting the volume to have access to all the programming and settings?  I think there are 3 security settings.  Total access, access to mute zones only from the front panel, and no access.

For source select (4) AND volume control- ZC8.
For source select (4) - ZC3
For volume control - ZC1 (knob), ZC2 (knob + mute), ZC6 (increment buttons).  I am partial to knobs.  Visual reference and quick adjustment.

ZC structure and use can become difficult and complex.  Main thing to remember is that you can't have a volume control in the zone and at a central location.  In other words, 2 zone volume controls = no volume control, and 2 source volume controls = no volume control.

Hope this helped.  Jason at DBX support is a great resource to make sure what you want to happen... can happen.

Very helpful, thanks!  I just talked to support and they were able to answer all of my questions.

To clarify, the 1260 (and all models) do mono-sum each of the 8 unbalanced inputs.  They CAN be ran in stereo, but you have two use two of them (so you only get 4 stereo inputs on the 1260). 

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Josh Baird

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Re: Sound for restaurant/bar application
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2018, 02:57:16 pm »

David -

Any idea what cables I should use/purchase to connect the CDi1000 to the DBX?  Are there pre-made cables that I should order, or can I use any 3-conductor type of cable?

Thanks.
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David Allred

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Re: Sound for restaurant/bar application
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2018, 04:37:00 pm »

David -

Any idea what cables I should use/purchase to connect the CDi1000 to the DBX?  Are there pre-made cables that I should order, or can I use any 3-conductor type of cable?

Thanks.

2-conductor + shield (mic cable).  Depending on location and environment use can use install cable (foil shield with drain wire).  It is the easiest to work the phoenix connectors and cheap.
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