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Author Topic: Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system  (Read 2557 times)

Paul Reedy

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Re: Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2018, 09:35:23 am »

Quick follow up, I spoke to the Music Director, and the Sr Pastor and went over my concerns.

There is one thing going on, some kind of buzz or rattle when a certain note is played on the keyboard.  The music director says he doesn't hear it in the IEM, but we all hear it coming from above, so we're going to get on a lift and see what's causing that.  Could mean a speaker repair, or it could be something vibrating in the ceiling.

It sounds like the board we're going with is the A&H SQ-6, so excited to get my hands on that one.
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2018, 09:56:45 am »

I'm not real familiar with system processing, what job would this device use, and do you have an example of some that I can look at?

What model EAW speakers are in the flown array?

They may be bi-amped or passive, either way you have to have some form of crossover in the system as it is now to crossover between your subwoofer and the flown mains. If the flown mains are passive you would have a crossover/DSP operating in a two way mode, if the mains are bi-amped the crossover/DSP would be operating in a three way mode.

The crossover could be in many forms from a rack mount unit, built into an amp or even a nondescript black box stuck somewhere in the equipment rack.

If there is no crossover of any sort in the system that could be one your issues.
If you turn off the main speakers, what sound comes out of the subwoofer, is it low and rumbly or can you hear mid range and some vocals.

Post a couple pictures of the equipment rack.

You post about hearing a buzzing sound when certain notes are played could be a mechanical vibration in the building or a bad woofer...or two in the main speakers.

A proper crossover in the system would filter the low frequency out of the signal feeding the main speakers, if it is not excessive low frequency has been beating on your mains and may have damage the woofers.

 

Simon_Barrett

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Re: Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2018, 06:04:06 pm »

Could even be as simple as a Loose grille on the front of a speaker resonating at a particular frequency.


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Taylor Phillips

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Re: Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2018, 10:13:44 pm »

Quick follow up, I spoke to the Music Director, and the Sr Pastor and went over my concerns.

There is one thing going on, some kind of buzz or rattle when a certain note is played on the keyboard.
Something like this happened at a place I volunteered on sound for a while - one particular not seemed to cause a loud buzzing in the ceiling.  Fixed it with a parametric EQ on the main out. 
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Paul Reedy

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Re: Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2018, 09:12:49 am »

What model EAW speakers are in the flown array?

They may be bi-amped or passive, either way you have to have some form of crossover in the system as it is now to crossover between your subwoofer and the flown mains. If the flown mains are passive you would have a crossover/DSP operating in a two way mode, if the mains are bi-amped the crossover/DSP would be operating in a three way mode.

...

Not exactly sure of the model flying, they could be JF260's, I just have to go back and look at the drawings.  They are passive speakers, they are not bi-amped.

Yes, there is a crossover in the amp rack.
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2018, 10:42:40 am »

Quick follow up, I spoke to the Music Director, and the Sr Pastor and went over my concerns.

There is one thing going on, some kind of buzz or rattle when a certain note is played on the keyboard.  The music director says he doesn't hear it in the IEM, but we all hear it coming from above, so we're going to get on a lift and see what's causing that.  Could mean a speaker repair, or it could be something vibrating in the ceiling.

It sounds like the board we're going with is the A&H SQ-6, so excited to get my hands on that one.

Be sure to try the SQ6 before buying. I had one on loan for almost 2 months and I didn't like it. It sounds fine but was a pain to get around on. The interface was weird and not what I would call logical. It has a lot of good things about it and a lot I don't like. It also is in serious need of a firmware upgrade that is due out sometime in the 3rd quarter of this year. It is incomplete at this moment and we don't know if the update will fix all of that.

BTW the easiest way to pinpoint the buzzing is to use a sweep tone generator and sweep thru the frequencies. They are available for your smart phone. As you slowly sweep you will hear the specific frequency that is buzzing and will be able to find it relatively easily. You want one that has the ability to smoothly sweep thru the tone, not a step generator. Once you find the offending frequency set it to constantly play that frequency and then go and hunt for the issue while playing that tone as low as you can and having it still buzzing.

For the Android phone i use this one.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.keuwl.functiongenerator

It's a little clunky to use but it preforms well. You can even set it to do a sweep with the high and low frequencies defined by you.

Do you have any pictures or links to pictures of the interior of the church?

 
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John L Nobile

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Re: Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2018, 03:37:10 pm »



For the Android phone i use this one.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.keuwl.functiongenerator


Nice app. Thanks for posting that. I'm sure it'll come in handy.
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Paul Reedy

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Re: Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2018, 10:21:31 am »

Be sure to try the SQ6 before buying. I had one on loan for almost 2 months and I didn't like it. It sounds fine but was a pain to get around on. The interface was weird and not what I would call logical. It has a lot of good things about it and a lot I don't like. It also is in serious need of a firmware upgrade that is due out sometime in the 3rd quarter of this year. It is incomplete at this moment and we don't know if the update will fix all of that.

BTW the easiest way to pinpoint the buzzing is to use a sweep tone generator and sweep thru the frequencies. They are available for your smart phone. As you slowly sweep you will hear the specific frequency that is buzzing and will be able to find it relatively easily. You want one that has the ability to smoothly sweep thru the tone, not a step generator. Once you find the offending frequency set it to constantly play that frequency and then go and hunt for the issue while playing that tone as low as you can and having it still buzzing.

For the Android phone i use this one.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.keuwl.functiongenerator

It's a little clunky to use but it preforms well. You can even set it to do a sweep with the high and low frequencies defined by you.

Do you have any pictures or links to pictures of the interior of the church?

Thanks, I do have a signal generator, a desktop unit as well as mobile app.  I plan to do a sweep, unless they get the local guy to do it. 

Thing is, they’ll have to rent a lift to get up there to find the source of the vibration.

I had some pics, but can’t find them now.  I’ll get some tonight before practice.


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brian maddox

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Re: Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2018, 03:39:48 pm »

  The sound system at our church I think is very decent.  It was designed by a well known audio firm, and came with all the CAD drawings of the system...

The sound has to cover a 180 degree horizontal span...

..Overall, the sound is even around the room...

The music leader wants to change out the speakers we have with a line array system...

I’m going to preface my comments with some personal bio, even though I hate doing that.

I’ve been in varsity pro sound for about 25 years.  For about 8 years, fairly recently, I “took a break from SR” and was a Full Time Music Director at a 2000 attendance contemporary US church.

During my entire tenure at the church, I never made any significant suggestions with regards to the sound system in our building, even though I was fairly certain about it’s limitations and what would be required to solve them. For one main reason.  I spent 99 percent of my time BEHIND THE PA!

If there is one thing that makes me crazy about US churches, it’s the power that music directors wield over technical matters when they lack either the knowledge, the actual practical experience, or both, to have anything remotely like an informed opinion on the subject.

Sorry.  I realize my rant is not helpful to your actual situation.  But I do have a certain sense of “frustration from a distance” at money being earmarked and spent by two people (the donor and the MD) in no position to wisely use the resources.

The whole “it’d be better with a line array” is a rant I won’t even bother to indulge.

Good luck and I hope whatever you spend the money on yields nothing but the best results. Honestly!
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brian maddox
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Paul Reedy

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Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2018, 08:52:17 pm »

Ok I did a frequency sweep and found a huge resonance at 120hz.  I don’t think it’s the speakers, I think it’s a combination of the air conditioner ducts/vents, and the plastic covers over the fluorescent lighting.

For now I’ve put a notch on the main output.

Pics
Oh ignore the old JBLs in the back.  I shut those off years ago because they don’t belong.  Plus they were causing feedback issues.






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« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 08:54:41 pm by Paul Reedy »
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