ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system  (Read 2027 times)

Paul Reedy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12
Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system
« on: June 09, 2018, 09:35:46 am »

I'm in a rotation running sound at our church.  I'm the "tech" person, I'm the one that troubleshoots and fixes any issues, recommends gear etc.  The sound system at our church I think is very decent.  It was designed by a well known audio firm, and came with all the CAD drawings of the system.  Our auditorium is shaped like a gym but with the stage on the long wall.  the roof apex runs through the short width of the room if that makes sense, so the highest part of the roof goes right over the center of the stage. 

The sound has to cover a 180 degree horizontal span.  It has a center cluster of 3 EAW point source speakers, the center has a wider dispersion than the 2 on the sides since it has to cover more in the middle.  all 3 together cover the 180 degree range properly.  If anything, the first 3 rows may not get much direct sound as there is a protrusion out the front center where the pastor resides.  The subs are EAW SB250's, one on each side of this "pod" we call it.  Overall, the sound is even around the room, the room is open, but the chairs are arranged where there are aisles in the zones between speakers.

We have a member of the congregation that's promised a large donation for the worship team to use as they see fit.  I personally suggested a new board (Midas M32) and an iMac for the sound board.

The music leader wants to change out the speakers we have with a line array system.  I'm not sure how I feel about this since we really don't have problems with bad sound, lack of sound, or loud areas.

The systems quoted so far from a local guy that works for a medium sized firm has submitted 2 quotes, one with JBL VRX, and another with QSC KLA line arrays.  9 speakers each, so a 3x3 array.  While this might bring more volume to the first few rows, I'm just wondering if 1) Is this really going to make a big difference in sound, and 2) are we 'downgrading' by going with JBL or QSC.  Both quotes replace our current SB250 subs with Dual 18" subs.  I've even suggested that we try looking at EAW line array speakers and keeping our existing subs.

The quote did suggest an Allen & Heath SQ6, which I find intriguing, or a soundcraft SI impact mixer, which I'm not familiar with.  I think the A&H board looks great, just wonder about ease of use with some of the other members.  My initial recommendation for the M32, I think our guys could pick up using it fairly easily.  We currently use a Presonus 24.4.2 mixer which hangs up if I plug my laptop into it, so I can't use my ipad anymore to mix, so a new mixer is needed.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 09:37:56 am by Paul Reedy »
Logged

David Sturzenbecher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1392
    • Sturz Audio
Re: Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2018, 10:21:57 am »

Paul,
Do you know the model of the current EAW speakers? You mentioned sub model numbers but not the mains.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 12:51:13 pm by David Sturzenbecher »
Logged
CTS-D, CTS-I
AES Full Member

Don T. Williams

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 633
  • Midas Pro 1 & 2, M32, dbTech T12, T8, S30, DM12
    • Q Systems Music & Sound
Re: Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2018, 12:30:32 pm »

I'm not trying to disparage either speaker manufacturer, but these are not "line array" systems.  They do not act as line sources at any frequency.  Both companies do offer several "line array" systems.  I can't be sure from the limited information given, but I don't think your room would benefit from a true line array system (if such an animal actually exists).  Keep in mind that line array/line source systems need to be long - probably at least 8 ft. (and the longer the better) to act as line sources for a significant portion of the audio spectrum.  And yes, I own and use a couple of line source/line array systems.  They aren't perfect, but they work for me in the right situation.

   
Logged

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4832
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Re: Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2018, 02:39:17 pm »

My thoughts are similar to what is being echoed here.  The line arrays will sound worse than what you have.  The JBL's can be tamed, but you have to be good at it.  They are very bright.

The QSC's are K12's turned on the side with rigging clips.  It's about the only abomination that QSC has ever done. 

I hope you have enough pull to derail this.  Instead of the music director specing a type of speaker (we need a line array) have him communicate how the current system is deficient.  Then you choose the speakers that will best address that deficiency.

Hopefully that will cause them to focus their thinking and be proper stewards of the funds.
Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
River Delta Audio is now:

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Paul Reedy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12
Re: Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2018, 04:12:11 pm »

I'm not trying to disparage either speaker manufacturer, but these are not "line array" systems.  They do not act as line sources at any frequency.  Both companies do offer several "line array" systems.  I can't be sure from the limited information given, but I don't think your room would benefit from a true line array system (if such an animal actually exists).  Keep in mind that line array/line source systems need to be long - probably at least 8 ft. (and the longer the better) to act as line sources for a significant portion of the audio spectrum.  And yes, I own and use a couple of line source/line array systems.  They aren't perfect, but they work for me in the right situation.

 

Don, I forget the model number.  They're legacy now as they're 15 years old. I can't even find anything online that looks like them.  I know it's a 12" 2 way speaker.  If I remember correctly, the center one has a 90 degree horizontal, while the outer 2 has 50 degree.
Logged

Simon_Barrett

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18
Re: Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2018, 06:55:27 pm »

Line arrays are just fashionable and are often misused because of this. Yes they look cool and they were everywhere at The Big Church Day Out over here in the UK during May and maybe they all did their job but point source is not to be frowned upon and it sounds from your description that coverage and sound are great.

As an acoustic consultant for my day job and frustrated sound engineer as a hobby, isnít even coverage the main thing of importance? (Whilst sounding good of course). If you have a short throw as in your front wall is the long wall then a line array really isnít the thing to have.

Maybe new point source boxes would work but only from a modernisation point of view.

Invest in a new console or mics or iems or stuff thatís gonna make your life easier.

Blessings,
Simon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged

Jason Glass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 535
    • CleanWirelessAudio.com
Re: Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2018, 07:34:07 pm »

Invest in a new console or mics or iems or stuff thatís gonna make your life easier.

I'd like to suggest feeding and clothing more poor people than the congregation was able to before the donation, to make their lives easier.

Dave Pluke

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 797
    • BIGG GRIN Productions
Re: Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2018, 08:25:03 pm »

We have a member of the congregation that's promised a large donation for the worship team to use as they see fit.  I personally suggested a new board (Midas M32) and an iMac for the sound board.


The M32 is a proven commodity and it plays very well with iPads and Behringer's P16-M wired IEM controllers.  Having worked (and trained volunteers) on such a system for over a year in a HoW, I think it's a better choice than the other consoles mentioned for your application.  Add stage boxes and digital snakes as appropriate.

And, as already mentioned, those aren't Line Arrays - they're placebos.  Focus everyone's thoughts on the console functionality and don't fix what ain't broke.  A nicely tuned center cluster can be a beautiful thing.

Maybe a couple of small, unobtrusive powered front fill speakers to cover the gaps will keep everyone happy?

Dave


Logged
...an analog man in a digital world [tm]

Lee Buckalew

  • Classic LAB
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1272
  • St. Louis, MO area
    • Pro Sound Advice, Inc.
Re: Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2018, 09:38:20 pm »

I'd like to suggest feeding and clothing more poor people than the congregation was able to before the donation, to make their lives easier.

Jason,
While I can appreciate your sentiment any donation to a charitable organization that is earmarked for a specific use by the donor must be used for that purpose unless the donor provides a written statement changing the terms of the donation.

Lee
Logged
Lee Buckalew
Pro Sound Advice, Inc.

Jason Glass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 535
    • CleanWirelessAudio.com
Re: Large donation - Music leader wants new speaker system
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2018, 10:29:26 pm »

Jason,
While I can appreciate your sentiment any donation to a charitable organization that is earmarked for a specific use by the donor must be used for that purpose unless the donor provides a written statement changing the terms of the donation.

Lee

I perfectly understand restricted vs. unrestricted donations, but find it repugnant to purposefully waste money on unneeded equipment simply because a misguided donor is willing to do it.  This is a perfect opportunity for a good pastor to educate the donor about good works, and resist the temptation to accept money just because he can.  I digress, though, and apologize for posting off-topic.

https://www.thebalancesmb.com/restricted-unrestricted-nonprofit-funds-2502167
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Up
 


Page created in 0.036 seconds with 16 queries.