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Author Topic: Do Midas stageboxes need on-line UPS ?  (Read 6403 times)

Mark Wilkinson

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Do Midas stageboxes need on-line UPS ?
« on: May 30, 2018, 11:35:59 AM »

On power loss, my DL-155 goes off like a rifle crack.
I'm hoping that a good interactive UPS has a fast enough switch-over to stop this.
The quickest interactive I've seen is 4ms.  Is that fast enough?

Time to fix.....thx.
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Do Midas stageboxes need on-line UPS ?
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2018, 12:30:48 PM »

I think any quality UPS will do the trick.
I use an APC for my SC boxes.
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Rob Spence

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Re: Do Midas stageboxes need on-line UPS ?
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2018, 04:11:28 PM »

Most UPS will switch quicker than the power supplies in most electronics drop their outputs.


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Don T. Williams

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Re: Do Midas stageboxes need on-line UPS ?
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2018, 04:35:57 PM »

Need is strong term.  Almost anything digital will benefit from an on-line UPS.  It's highly recommended.  I have two - one at FOH to serve the console and light control, and one at monitor world for the stage box and that console.  Good insurance.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Do Midas stageboxes need on-line UPS ?
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2018, 05:50:00 PM »

Need is strong term.  Almost anything digital will benefit from an on-line UPS.  It's highly recommended.  I have two - one at FOH to serve the console and light control, and one at monitor world for the stage box and that console.  Good insurance.

What is the benefit of the UPS being "online"? I have had several shows where someone found a way to kill power in the middle of the show. The basic APS UPS kept the console and associated electronics from rebooting every time. I see no need for the extra expense of an online ups, unless you mean "online" in the sense that it is on the Internet and can send an email or text if there is a power interruption.

I have all equipment that will reboot if power is interrupted on a UPS so there is no wait when power comes back, and all comms equipment on a UPS so there is communication while solving the power problem.

Mac
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Ed Hall

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Re: Do Midas stageboxes need on-line UPS ?
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2018, 06:01:32 PM »


...and all comms equipment on a UPS so there is communication while solving the power problem.


I’ve received some strange looks for suggesting this, and a few “Ah Ha”s too.
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: Do Midas stageboxes need on-line UPS ?
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2018, 06:28:28 PM »

Hi all, thanks for the replies.

My question about "need online " was only in regard to will an interactive UPS be fast enough in switch-over to keep from hearing the explosive pop I get. 
I didn't mean to insinuate anything negative towards the Midas stageboxes.

It's just the DL-155 pop is much worse than any mixer or stagebox pop I've heard ...it's an oh damn kinda pop, and i have no idea how long it takes for it to occur after power loss. 
It's beyond embarrassing....it's a must to prevent, and hope to buy once.....but also hoping for a 1U solution, which doesn't seem to exist in online (double-conversion) UPS.

If the pop occurs later than 4ms after power loss, I figure an interactive works just fine....
Based on comments, I'm thinking to get an interactive and see...


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Don T. Williams

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Re: Do Midas stageboxes need on-line UPS ?
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2018, 07:27:45 PM »

What is the benefit of the UPS being "online"? I have had several shows where someone found a way to kill power in the middle of the show. The basic APS UPS kept the console and associated electronics from rebooting every time. I see no need for the extra expense of an online ups, unless you mean "online" in the sense that it is on the Internet and can send an email or text if there is a power interruption.

I have all equipment that will reboot if power is interrupted on a UPS so there is no wait when power comes back, and all comms equipment on a UPS so there is communication while solving the power problem.

Mac

Actually I wasn't meaning to say they needed to be "on line", I was just copying the question.  I not certain the author was specifying a particular type, but possibly he was.  I think any good UPS is good insurance.  I do use the double conversion type for the extra protection they can provide.  I've run into some really weird power in the past!
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Do Midas stageboxes need on-line UPS ?
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2018, 07:39:35 PM »

I do use the double conversion type for the extra protection they can provide.  I've run into some really weird power in the past!

This relates to what I was implying in my previous post. I have not run into "weird power" in a little over 40 years in the business. I have run into a ton of poorly wired sound systems, but very little or no issues I could honestly blame on power.

I think in a live production environment having gear that takes more than a couple of seconds to recover from a power outage means having those pieces of gear protected by a UPS is critical.

Mac
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Kevin McDonough

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Re: Do Midas stageboxes need on-line UPS ?
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2018, 06:09:55 AM »

hey

With UPS there are two thing to consider (as well as appropriate size etc).

The term online refers to the fact that some systems the battery sits idle until a powercut is detected, then the unit switches over to the battery. This can take a few ms, and while a lot of equipment wont notice this some will and get a bit twitchy or have issues. An "online" UPS is one where the battery is always on. The things plugged in always run on the battery, but the battery is constantly being charged by the mains so things stay full, and then if the mains go off, there is no switch over time the plugged in items just continue to run from the battery.


The other thing to look at is double inverted systems and simulated sine wave power.  AC gets fed into the UPS and converted to DC for the battery. To then power the equipment it has to turn back into AC again.  Some systems have a second inverted to convert it back to proper AC, some just use a simulated sine wave in a kind of similar way to audio being represented digitally. Just like audio, higher sample and bit rates lead to a "smoother" representation of the audio, and so some of the simulated sine waves are better quality or more realistic than others. Again some equipment will be fine with either, some a little more sensitive and may have issues depending on how fine a resolution the simulated sine wave is. Some may just not like it at all and want a proper inversion back to AC.

K
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 06:18:38 AM by Kevin McDonough »
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Do Midas stageboxes need on-line UPS ?
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2018, 06:09:55 AM »


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