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[LeVan Moxley]

Thanks for all the insight and for setting me straight on the Ui24. So far, I guess the 16.0.2 has it's own little niche as a small footprint control surface mixer.  I may try and pick one up used to test. 

[Steve Crump]

Thanks for all the insight and for setting me straight on the Ui24. So far, I guess the 16.0.2 has it's own little niche as a small footprint control surface mixer.  I may try and pick one up used to test.

Just keep in mind, (as far as I know) the 16.0.2 doesn't come in the AI version only the classic version. So if you ever did decide that there is a benefit to controlling it remotely you will have to have additional hardware to do that.
I used a Mac Mini and router to operate the 16.4.2 remotely that I once had.
I know it was already brought up in the discussion, but if you want a control surface and could get used to the touch screen, it is hard to beat the QSC TM for weight and size.
Ashly also has the DigiMix 18. Doesn't really meet your criteria either, but it may be worth looking at.. 

[kel mcguire]

I still use my SL1602 a lot, on little sound gigs and for the band. There really isn't anything like it for my usage and needs. It sounds fine, has a small footprint.  I use the recording aspects into Capture quite often, for video and virtual soundcheck.

I was actually hoping they'd do a sort of AI-plus or something but Presonus only added usb. I like having faders and don't require motorized faders on this size mixer. Being able to grab an individual physical fader, effects on/off, effects master, and the monitor masters are important to me, especially running my own sound while performing. At this point I'd probably get another one or move to the Touchmix.

[LeVan Moxley]

I still use my SL1602 a lot, on little sound gigs and for the band. There really isn't anything like it for my usage and needs. It sounds fine, has a small footprint.  I use the recording aspects into Capture quite often, for video and virtual soundcheck.

I was actually hoping they'd do a sort of AI-plus or something but Presonus only added usb. I like having faders and don't require motorized faders on this size mixer. Being able to grab an individual physical fader, effects on/off, effects master, and the monitor masters are important to me, especially running my own sound while performing. At this point I'd probably get another one or move to the Touchmix.

Yeah the 1602 seems to have carved out a space all it's own.  I agree, I don't need motorized faders on a small mixer like this.  It's nice having all the EQs and comps in a small package without having to carry any outboard gear.  It is handy to be able to grab a fader.  I've got a 16.4.2 that I use sometimes with a Macbook.  I like using the Mac because I'm automatically set up to record if I need to.  If I need to go wireless, I just create a network in the Mac and grab the iPad .  The price tag for a new 16.0.2 is pretty steep though.  The cheapest I can find is about $950.  I can get a Midas MR18 for $580.  For the money difference it would be hard to pay the Presonus price over the Midas. I'm watching several places hoping I can pick up a clean used one for a decent price.   

[Stephen Kirby]

Linear faders, motorized or otherwise, are overkill for a small top box used by bar bands doing their own sound.  A legacy of large varsity desks to make people feel big time.  Local working musicians want small, reliable, easy to use, with enough inputs for the singers and a couple extras for an acoustic guitar or maybe kick drum.  Easy to use means a knob to grab in tactical situations.  If you're playing an instrument, once you get hold of the right knob you can go back to holding a note while you twist in the appropriate direction.  That's my issue with glass.  When I'm just doing sound I spend maybe 80% of the time walking the venue with my iPad making tweaks.  But if I'm playing I tend to drag out the old gear with knobs.
The idea of a master channel strip on digital mixers is brilliant.  I can get around in tactical situations on my Soundcraft Expression much faster than the sea of knobs on my Allen & Heath GL.  Carry this forward onto a small box with 8 channels, rotary encoders for each channel where the faders would be with a push button sends on faders for monitor auxes and effects, maybe even output GEQs.  Master strip with 3 bands of semi parametric eq (6 encoders total) and maybe a one knob comp like the Yamaha.  Put all the other set up like stuff (FX settings) gates, routing and any other trick features on a tablet remote.  Small touch screens aren't really that handy.  Anyone who's tried to bring up things on a TouchMix with one hand while holding a chord with the other has learned this.  Get this into the price range of a powered top box and as folks migrate to powered speakers you won't be able to keep it on the shelves.  Non-intimidating.  The only thing people would have to learn to transition from their top box would be the select buttons.  Having 4-6 monitor sends and a couple FX without a ton of knobs will grab people quick.  Use a color scheme for the encoder indicators like Soundcraft's fader glow.  And they'll find that they can punch up an output or channel and set things faster than they could find the right knob on their old top box.

[LeVan Moxley]

I agree Stephen.  As we continually move down the digital mixer highway, I believe the mixer that you're referring to will eventually become a reality.  I also believe they will become commonplace.

[Scott Bolt]

Well, in every group there is always one outlier   That would be me.

Having used the original SL mixers (16.0.2 and 16.4.2), and now having used the XR18, X32 Rack, and Mackie DL1608, I have to say, for a band playing live and mixing from stage, a tablet with a full meter bridge in front of you on a mic stand is by far the easiest way to mix from stage.

I know that some will say that having physical controls tops any other feature on a tablet application, but that has not been my experience.

The tablet has custom layers.  Each fader can be setup with color coded LCD scribble strips that are easily identifiable at a glance.  DCA's can be created for groups like drums, vocals, etc and put on a custom layer as needed along with individual faders for the money channels (kick, snare, lead vocal).

In the case of the X32 mixers, you can use scenes and snipits to automate your song eq for things like changing lead singers, changing eq for a special effect, etc at the touch of a button on the tablet.

It is my prediction that the small, rack digital mixer will indeed grow in its current form.  The applications will get better, and the wifi routers in them will improve greatly.  Aside from that, there will be bigger consoles with motorized faders and LCD scribble strips even for mid sized acts, and at the very bottom, I think there is still room for small channel count analog mixers with some digital capability (I have no intention of getting rid of my Zed 10Fx sitting next to me as I type here ).

Anyway, that is just one man's opinion.

FWIW, when I purchased my X32 Rack, I was terrified that I would miss the physical faders of my MixWiz.  I don't.

[LeVan Moxley]

Hey Scott.  If it's what works for you, that's all that matters.  That's why there are so many types of gear.  I've been on several X32's but not on a tablet.  I've been considering a Midas MR18 which runs the same software as the XR18.  I also know about the X32 Rack but I haven't mixed on one.  What's your pros and cons XR18 vs X32 Rack.  The XR18's are super hot right now.  How much "lacking" is an XR18 vs the Xrack?

[David Winners]

I'm not Scott, but I have been mixing on X-Air mixers for a couple years, starting with an XR16, then XR18. They are very nice little mixers that sound good and have a ton of features for their price point.

That being said, if I had to do it all over again, I would jump right to the X32 Rack. The increased I/O, channel count (for duplicating channels for monitors), doubled effects rack, ability to use buses as subgroups, matrix mixes, crossover slopes built in, card slot for X-Live, AES50.

The X32 is a LOT more mixer than double the XR18.

[Art Nadelman]

In your original post, you mention the XR16 and the XR18.  Although I'd personally recommend the X32 Rack over either of those, you could add an X-Touch to any of them to give you physical faders.

[ProSoundWeb Community]