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[LeVan Moxley]

Thanks for all the input.  I'm not familiar with Sound King.  I'll let Google help me with that.  I'm not opposed to controlling with a tablet.  I've been on tablets with Studiolive, X32, and Ui's.  A friend has a 16.0.2 that has been really handy at times.  It makes total sense about the expensive cost of "physical controls"   I also won't be surprised the day someone releases Xenyx "type" mixer that's  digital.  How about an X12 with faders, lol.  It might happen one day.

[Rick Powell]

Yamaha 01v96? It used to be the “small digital mixer de jour”.

[Alec Spence]

Thanks for all the input.  I'm not familiar with Sound King.  I'll let Google help me with that.  I'm not opposed to controlling with a tablet.  I've been on tablets with Studiolive, X32, and Ui's.  A friend has a 16.0.2 that has been really handy at times.  It makes total sense about the expensive cost of "physical controls"   I also won't be surprised the day someone releases Xenyx "type" mixer that's  digital.  How about an X12 with faders, lol.  It might happen one day.

While the SoundKing meets your size ask, it's a bit of a trust question as an "unknown" brand.  While I mentioned it, I probably would be shy of buying one!

X12 with faders - would probably be priced out of its target market, sadly.

Where the control-less mixers really win is the fact that you need no snake with them.  You simply pop them by the talent & FOH speakers.  No snake, short cable runs - a real win for the tech fitting everything in a small van/car.  If compact is important to you, then think further than just the desk size - there are other bits of the package you can eliminate.  At that point, as others have observed, the drawback of not having physical controls can be hugely outweighed by other benefits.

In this range of market, I generally only recommend the Ui24.  The XR18 is also a good piece of gear having both an iPad and Android control option, but it won't do multi-track recording, and has fewer XLR inputs than the Ui24.  The general consensus is that the Ui24 is a little better sounding mixer as well (but I think either can sound just fine).  The XR18 also only has a 2.4Ghz router, so you would have to add the cost of a decent 5Ghz router to its price to be fair.

In the end, it's a balancing act between all the products and their funcationality/usability/cost.

The UI24 has more inputs than the XR18, but also costs more.  The OP's needs are likely to be more like the XR12/16 level, based on the Xenyx comparison.

Always budget on getting an external router/access point.  While some mixers have better ones than others (and the XR series access points stink, where the UI24 is rather better), an external access point is better still, and allows you to position it much more optimally.

And both XR18 and UI24 support multi-track recording, to set the record straight...

Yamaha 01v96? It used to be the “small digital mixer de jour”.

*Used to be* indeed - there's a reason why I moved mine on!  Great solid mixers, but today's products have way more functionality and better usability.

[LeVan Moxley]

While the SoundKing meets your size ask, it's a bit of a trust question as an "unknown" brand.  While I mentioned it, I probably would be shy of buying one!

X12 with faders - would probably be priced out of its target market, sadly.

Where the control-less mixers really win is the fact that you need no snake with them.  You simply pop them by the talent & FOH speakers.  No snake, short cable runs - a real win for the tech fitting everything in a small van/car.  If compact is important to you, then think further than just the desk size - there are other bits of the package you can eliminate.  At that point, as others have observed, the drawback of not having physical controls can be hugely outweighed by other benefits.
In the end, it's a balancing act between all the products and their funcationality/usability/cost.

The UI24 has more inputs than the XR18, but also costs more.  The OP's needs are likely to be more like the XR12/16 level, based on the Xenyx comparison.

Always budget on getting an external router/access point.  While some mixers have better ones than others (and the XR series access points stink, where the UI24 is rather better), an external access point is better still, and allows you to position it much more optimally.

And both XR18 and UI24 support multi-track recording, to set the record straight...
*Used to be* indeed - there's a reason why I moved mine on!  Great solid mixers, but today's products have way more functionality and better usability.

Yep Alec, you pretty much hit the nail on the head.  I'm in total agreement about the advantages of the "stagebox" type mixers.  I'd have a tough time dropping $1100 on an a Soundking for the reasons you stated.  Heck, I can get an X32 producer for that price.  I've also read about some noise issues and other problems with the Ui's.  I'm not sure I could trust one of those either.  +1 on going with an external router. 

[Alec Spence]

I've also read about some noise issues and other problems with the Ui's.  I'm not sure I could trust one of those either.

The UI 12/16 were the ones with the problems, along with network and stability issues.  Wouldn't touch them with a bargepole!

The UI 24, however, appears to be a completely different kettle of fish, and appears stable and performant.  They're not for me, but are very popular.

Back to your needs, though - what's the channel count you're after?  That could help narrow down the field.

[Weogo Reed]

Hi LeVan,

You can download most of the various mixer apps and try them off-line.

Take a look at the Mackie DL1608. 
Very fast and easy to get around on.

Good health,  Weogo

Are there any other small format digital mixers that are similar in size and function to a 16.0.2?  I know about the XR16 and XR18 and also about the Ui's from Soundcraft.  I was wondering about a small format board with a control surface other than a tablet.

[Luke Geis]

I would say that going digital, it is kind of an all or nothing thing. VERY difficult to have your cake and eat it too. Every mixer is going to have a series of features you like and dislike. You want faders, you have to step up in price and accept limitations in routing. You want routing and full digital compliments but not the price, you have to get rack mounted ( ipad ran ) units. The units that are cheap and have faders and features are usually cheaper, lesser known or demanded.

At some point you have to pull off the tit ( for lack of a better way of putting it ) and just decide if you are going to go full on digital, or stay analog. For what you can get a real analog desk for, you can get a really good digital mixer for. As an example. Allen & Heath still sells their GL2400 ( 24 channel ) for $2,000, you can get the Behringer X32 ( 32 channel model ) for the same price. Do the math. Need to reduce cost? The X32 comes in a few different packages that can reduce cost a bit. I use the Behringer X32 models as an example because it is highly excepted and the price is right.

If you want cheap and digital, you will have to except the limitations. This may mean giving up faders, or full digital features such as motorized faders, real scene changes, and open format routing. Which one do you want? The cake is expensive if you want to eat it.

[Mike Caldwell]

The UI 12/16 were the ones with the problems, along with network and stability issues.  Wouldn't touch them with a bargepole!

The UI 24, however, appears to be a completely different kettle of fish, and appears stable and performant.  They're not for me, but are very popular.

Back to your needs, though - what's the channel count you're after?  That could help narrow down the field.

Starting about a year ago the firmware updates breathed new life into the UI12 and 16. There not going to replace any of the big boy digital mixers but they come in handy when you don't need big boy mixer features.

You do need to set them up with an external router/access point though.

[Scott Bolt]

...And both XR18 and UI24 support multi-track recording, to set the record straight...

I agree with everything you said except for this.

The XR18 supports multi-track recording IF you use an external computer/laptop to do it with through USB.  The Ui24 supports multi-track "direct-to-USB thumb drive" eliminating the need for an external computer.

If the OP's channel count requirement is lower than this product range, and his pocketbook isn't up for the price of these mixers, then things change completely.

For lower channel count, I would strongly suggest the XR12 or XR16.  Bot the Ui12 and Ui16 suffer from a design problem in the pre-amps.  There is also a design problem in the grounding schema.  No firmware update will ever fix this.  The newly designed Ui24 does not suffer from either of these problems and throws in an "OK" wireless router to boot.

[Mal Brown]

I've also read about some noise issues and other problems with the Ui's.  I'm not sure I could trust one of those either.  +1 on going with an external router.

My ui-24 has been rock solid and noise is simply not an issue.  I do use an external router.   The ui-24 is. Redesign with upgraded preamps from the 12 and 16. Those boxes are where the noise issues were reported.  Frankly the majority of connectivity issues I hear of are from folks with zero ip/ networking experience and less tolerance for learning...

[ProSoundWeb Community]