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Author Topic: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?  (Read 7112 times)

Jay Barracato

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Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2018, 04:17:24 PM »

I think that may be Wayne Pauley's personal console he has out with Lee. 

Dierks used to be on a PM5000 at FOH when that was a VER account.  I know Pugs has switched back to digital on an S6L now, and I think they're back with Clair.

Kevin still has Brad Paisley on the H1000 out front.  I think I remember Kevin telling the story that he uncrated that desk when it was brand new and that's the only artist that it's ever been with.

Somebody already mentioned Green Day and Eric Church. 

Elvis Costello was on an XL4 last time I saw him, but it's been a few years.

To the OP - there are still some artists, but it's few and far between.
My last summer of festivals, which was about 5 years ago, saw a number of country acts with all analog FOH from Clair Nashville. Recently, it has been x32 or m32's but also a good step down on the rider ladder.

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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2018, 04:40:05 PM »

Fair question.

Back when I was touring the frozen tundra, we had a Mark IV 24 channel mixer and a combination of CS800's & CS400's.  That stuff never let us down - even after -40F truck rides.
yup  BSH engineering... (hint= brick outhouses don't fall down).
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IMHO the gaudy logo and aluminum trim strips should have been jettisoned much sooner.  Some of that has a lingering effect.
Funny during my time there we had some modest success at modernizing the look but the man whose name is on all the buildings has an odd affection for his old logo that looks like he sketched it on his HS notebook cover, because he did.  ::) At one time Melia (RIP) prohibited people from even mentioning changing the logo to Hartley.

His affection for the aluminum extrusions was because the iconic look was easily recognizable from the audience. He was so upset about extrusion scrap from those cosmetic strips that when I tried to bring in an extrusion to make a clamshell package I had an uphill battle, but he relented and they are still using my extrusion package today.  8)
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Saw some very nice speakers for the House of Worship market in the Peavey booth at Nashville NAMM.  I was surprised they weren't further along in the Digital Mixer development,
without revealing too much inside baseball we were well along with a digital console that didn't suck last century, but this was years before Uli trumped that market segment with his spectacularly priced entry, and ours was at a much higher price. In hindsight Peavey probably would have lost market share like everybody else. I can only congratulate Uli for that win. He leaned far out the window and didn't fall. Peavey was unwilling to gamble on a digital console mass market that wasn't obvious until after it happened, at least how to get there wasn't obvious. 
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but maybe that's what the Crest Audio acquisition was all about?

Dave
Um no.... That was Hartley seizing the day when the opportunity to buy Crest on the cheap arose. That money was going to pay for us building a factory in China, but stuff happens (in hindsight, why buy the Chinese cow when the milk is so cheap?). Crest had one solid digital guy, but no digital console chops or program. The Crest console guys who spun out and formed their own console company a few years later, were still riding the "analog only" pony into the ditch.  ???   

JR

PS: Of course I have many more stories but i probably shared too much already.  :-[
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2018, 04:43:01 PM »

My last summer of festivals, which was about 5 years ago, saw a number of country acts with all analog FOH from Clair Nashville. Recently, it has been x32 or m32's but also a good step down on the rider ladder.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

Mixerperson demographics at work?  We're probably approaching the EOL for them as well as the consoles.

If I'd mixed the same act(s) on the same desk/outboard for my entire career I'd probably not make big changes when close to retirement.  No reason to.  The gear helped make the clients happy and changing that would be silly.  Note that some of the legacy acts are making their final tours between now and 2020...

These days the number of BEs who have not mixed shows on analog consoles is probably in the majority.

The Rolling Stones FOH Engineer Dave Natale is still using a Yamaha PM-4000
Isn't that his own, personally owned console though?

Yes, it is.  The "B stage" mixer changes from time to time but the A mixer is Dave's PM4K.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2018, 04:07:37 PM »

I wonder how many of those "legacy" acts are also addicted to the outboard they've been using since their hits were released?

Although maintaining that stuff could be as troublesome as an old desk.  I remember Robben Ford's tech panicking when TC announced the EOL of the 2290.  They got an early warning and were able to snatch up a couple spares but they aren't exactly made out of money like many of the hobbyists who sucked the market dry when they found out (same folks who will shell out $200k for a Dumble amplifier when one comes on the market so they can hook a 2290 to it and think they'll sound like Robben).

There will always be people who think that the sound of their youth was in the equipment used.  I'm sure there are indie bands who are just waiting to get big enough to mandate old analog stuff on their riders.  Just as they dredged up old Tascam Portastudios to get their recording "vibe" with.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2018, 05:35:27 PM »

I wonder how many of those "legacy" acts are also addicted to the outboard they've been using since their hits were released?

Although maintaining that stuff could be as troublesome as an old desk.  I remember Robben Ford's tech panicking when TC announced the EOL of the 2290.  They got an early warning and were able to snatch up a couple spares but they aren't exactly made out of money like many of the hobbyists who sucked the market dry when they found out (same folks who will shell out $200k for a Dumble amplifier when one comes on the market so they can hook a 2290 to it and think they'll sound like Robben).

There will always be people who think that the sound of their youth was in the equipment used.  I'm sure there are indie bands who are just waiting to get big enough to mandate old analog stuff on their riders.  Just as they dredged up old Tascam Portastudios to get their recording "vibe" with.

I don't know about "addicted" but if it's working, it's what you've used for 40 years, why change before The Last Tour?

I know a couple of folks who paid way, way too much for a 2290... and nope, I'm not among them.  I recently sold my M1 and D2 and got almost 25% of my purchase prices!  Whoopee!
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Andrew Broughton

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Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2018, 12:46:03 AM »

Who would pay piles for a 2290 when you can get the same thing (only better) for $349?
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TC2290--tc-electronic-tc2290-dt-dynamic-delay-desktop-controller
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Diogo Nunes Pereira

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Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2018, 10:31:32 AM »

How rare is it to see these beasts out on large tours these days?

Last summer Van Morrison requested analog console at a festival I work at every year. We provided a Midas H3000, 18 channels of dbx160 and PCM960L. I was bored at monitor world after lunch break and volunteered to help patch channels, sends, returns, inserts and linecheck the whole thing the day before... felt like old times. The insert snakes appreciated the trip outside.

In another festival two summers ago we provided both and XL4 and a Venue Profile at FOH. No band engineer ventured with the XL4, not even those BE with no session for the profile on their sticks (this also, a rare occurence...)
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brian maddox

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Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2018, 11:25:30 AM »

Last summer Van Morrison requested analog console at a festival I work at every year. We provided a Midas H3000, 18 channels of dbx160 and PCM960L. I was bored at monitor world after lunch break and volunteered to help patch channels, sends, returns, inserts and linecheck the whole thing the day before... felt like old times. The insert snakes appreciated the trip outside.

In another festival two summers ago we provided both and XL4 and a Venue Profile at FOH. No band engineer ventured with the XL4, not even those BE with no session for the profile on their sticks (this also, a rare occurence...)

After my recent experience with an s6l i would have been the one jumping on that XL4.  In a heartbeat.
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Steve Litcher

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Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2018, 11:36:24 AM »

Ahh, analog/Peavey memories.

When I was a wee-lad the first board I mixed on was a Peavey XR-12. Powered beast with woodgrained sides. Lugging that thing around was a chore, to say the least. Then we upgraded to an Allen&Heath 24-channel... I can't recall the model. But I'll never forget the rack of CS800s that we used. Holy-hernias-Batman!

But those things were rock solid. They'd sit in the trailer all week in northern Wisconsin, winter/spring/summer/fall, and they never once balked.

After making the jump to digital in 2013, can't say I'd ever go back to analog. I definitely don't miss patching all of the FOH processing equipment or hauling around x# more road cases. :-)

And talking about Uli and the X32/M32... we had a show come through and the rider called for "Avid only!!!" FOH consoles. They asked for the S6L, but in certain pre-approved instances, they'd "accept" a SC-48.

We told them we didn't have any Avid gear; sent our apologies and suggested another sound company in the area that has Avid. We got a response that asked if we had the X32, as that would suffice for them. It's amazing how universally accepted the X32 is (even though I had a good chuckle at the disparity in requirements).

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2018, 04:08:27 PM »

Ahh, analog/Peavey memories.

When I was a wee-lad the first board I mixed on was a Peavey XR-12. Powered beast with woodgrained sides. Lugging that thing around was a chore, to say the least. Then we upgraded to an Allen&Heath 24-channel... I can't recall the model. But I'll never forget the rack of CS800s that we used. Holy-hernias-Batman!

But those things were rock solid. They'd sit in the trailer all week in northern Wisconsin, winter/spring/summer/fall, and they never once balked.

After making the jump to digital in 2013, can't say I'd ever go back to analog. I definitely don't miss patching all of the FOH processing equipment or hauling around x# more road cases. :-)

And talking about Uli and the X32/M32... we had a show come through and the rider called for "Avid only!!!" FOH consoles. They asked for the S6L, but in certain pre-approved instances, they'd "accept" a SC-48.

We told them we didn't have any Avid gear; sent our apologies and suggested another sound company in the area that has Avid. We got a response that asked if we had the X32, as that would suffice for them. It's amazing how universally accepted the X32 is (even though I had a good chuckle at the disparity in requirements).

And this gets to the heart of the matter - it's about what the BE is comfortable using.

As a regional provider we see mostly "self contained" headline acts and support acts that have varying levels of need.  I can't bill the FOH console as a separate line item unless it's rented in at promoter request (IOW artist demand) so buying a $75,000 FOH console is beyond stupid.  Looking down to the middle range there's little outside A-H (who, were we on another continent with a different importer, might get our business).

The Yamaha QL repeats much of what frustrated me with the LS/9, the CL is cool and a decent value when it's on promotion sale with bundled i/o... but only then.  As "everybody's second choice" we'll probably buy a CL5 package...

AVID has introduced smaller surfaces for the S6L line but I've yet to see pricing on any of it.  That we will have to buy SoundGrid server(s) to use Waves plugs is a disappointment.  Anything AVID will have to be price competitive with the Yammy CL.

DigiCo?  As soon as they stop locking up when given a cold, icy stare we'll consider them.  At least there are some mid-scale offerings and more BEs are familiar with them.  Several models close to us for sub-rental.

Soundcraft?  Love the products but there's almost zero demand for them on riders.

I'd love to have an SSL Live or any of the big dog desks but we're based in a 3rd tier city where the acts expect 1st tier gear; no problem except the promoters don't want to pay for 1st tier stuff in smaller markets with lower gross potential.  Throw in that we're ~150 miles from three 2nd tier cities and it's a competitive business to be in.

Our outlook has been to buy at the top of the bottom (M32) for support act use.  We'll eventually replace our Profiles and SC48s and M7s with fewer of something nicer than the M32, and sub-rent anything else.

Edit ps:  Yes, I deliberately left out Midas's non-M32 models.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 04:10:58 PM by Tim McCulloch »
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"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

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Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2018, 04:08:27 PM »


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