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Author Topic: With subs, any advantage of DSR115 over 112?  (Read 1104 times)

kel mcguire

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With subs, any advantage of DSR115 over 112?
« on: May 15, 2018, 12:12:42 pm »

I'm seeing the rebates and expect that we might see additional cuts on the DSR line. I'd love a pretty loud one-top solution for a number of the gigs I do…and I'm downsizing. The 15" incarnation VS the 12" of MI powered speakers seem to always have a couple dB extra SPL but that spec is never correspond to a frequency.
So, a question:

Would there be a discernible difference in sheer volume when using subs at the typical 100hz Xover with DSR115 over 112? I'd rather lift the 12s but a couple dB would probably be worth it, especially if the price keeps dropping. Or would that couple/few dB be at or below Xover. If it was in the vocal/instrument range, that makes a difference to me.
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: With subs, any advantage of DSR115 over 112?
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2018, 12:51:32 pm »

If push comes to shove, the 15"s will have a bit more output in the 100-150Hz range as the 12"s start running out of grunt.
That said, there are a lot of people using the 12"s over subwoofers and reporting plenty of output, so YMMV.

You'd probably be able to fudge the difference by taking the crossover a little higher with the 12"s.

Chris
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Scott Olewiler

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Re: With subs, any advantage of DSR115 over 112?
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2018, 01:01:05 pm »

If push comes to shove, the 15"s will have a bit more output in the 100-150Hz range as the 12"s start running out of grunt.
That said, there are a lot of people using the 12"s over subwoofers and reporting plenty of output, so YMMV.

You'd probably be able to fudge the difference by taking the crossover a little higher with the 12"s.

Chris

Between 100 and 150hz is that last place I'd wantt more output out of top.  Must be reason why everyone raves abut the 112 model on here, myself included, and nary a mention of the 15. 

IMHO 15's don't work well as tops unless they're part of a 3 way speaker.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: With subs, any advantage of DSR115 over 112?
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2018, 03:01:20 pm »

I think it's the same HF system.  So unless you're running it full range, I don't see any advantage to the 15.

I've used the 12s for vocal only in small situations but I would never consider them full range.  There's a thump in the mid bass with that switch engaged but no real lows.  If the situation asked for music playback and is too small for subs then I'll bring my K10s (which I'd love to replace with DXR10s).

I've also used the DSRs with a single DSX12 sub in smaller things where it was a bit louder and I wanted the clarity of the DSRs but they do need some low end help.  Where they shine is as tops over subs where the clarity and evenness of HF pattern can get the music across in mid sized situations.
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Dave Pluke

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Re: With subs, any advantage of DSR115 over 112?
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2018, 03:03:09 pm »

Between 100 and 150hz is that last place I'd wantt more output out of top.

+1

Another benefit with the 12" (or 8" or 10", for that matter) is potentially smoother transition at the HF crossover point.

Dave
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Luke Geis

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Re: With subs, any advantage of DSR115 over 112?
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2018, 03:54:57 pm »

short answer is no.

12" speakers these days aren't really lacking in comparison to their 15" counterparts. In standalone mode, yes, a 15" will have a little more low end power, but the difference in output between a 12" and a 15" is only about 3db at the most these days. If you won't be using all the available power, you can add some low end to a 12" to have a little more oomph and still have headroom and volume. You just can't expect a 12" to hit as hard and get as loud as a 15".

When coupled to a sub, there is no amount of frequencies that the 15" is doing that a 12" isn't already capable of. So the 12" will have the same opportunity to sound as it is intended with only the difference in the size of the driver being the area of loss for SPL. What many don't realize is that the extra area that a 15" speaker has, is what allows for the extra 1-3db in SPL all else being the same. 3db is no big deal at all. A 12" speaker will be equal in opportunity to a 15" in terms of output once crossed over around the 80hz to 100hz area.  Just look at the frequency plots of many 12" and 15" designs. They tend to start converging right around that point.

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Steve Garris

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Re: With subs, any advantage of DSR115 over 112?
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2018, 04:04:57 pm »

Also take note that the DSR112 has a monitor wedge angle, and makes for a great floor monitor. The DSR115 does not have this.

Myself, I went with 15" 2-way speakers for my mains, not because of any perceived volume increase, but because I like the way they sound. I do a lot of hard rock tribute & cover bands, and it's just my preference. Mine are JBL, both SRX and PRX powered units.
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Scott Bolt

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Re: With subs, any advantage of DSR115 over 112?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2018, 06:37:41 pm »

The DSR112's are better for doing top over sub work because they are lighter, and can be used easily as monitors.  They have more than enough output to cover >90Hz frequencies without a problem.

Compared to the DSR115, practically every other offering near this price range pales in comparison to the silly output one of these things can do.  The low end is very impressive.  If you have heard the DXR15 and thought that it was impressive, then the DSR115 will really shock you.

If you put them over subs, all of that low end output simply doesn't matter.

To be clear, the DSR112 isn't a good full range speaker on its own.  It is nice for duo/solo work as well.
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Al Poulin

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Re: With subs, any advantage of DSR115 over 112?
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2018, 09:59:21 am »

The DSR112's are better for doing top over sub work because they are lighter, and can be used easily as monitors.  They have more than enough output to cover >90Hz frequencies without a problem.

Compared to the DSR115, practically every other offering near this price range pales in comparison to the silly output one of these things can do.  The low end is very impressive.  If you have heard the DXR15 and thought that it was impressive, then the DSR115 will really shock you.

If you put them over subs, all of that low end output simply doesn't matter.

To be clear, the DSR112 isn't a good full range speaker on its own.  It is nice for duo/solo work as well.

Absolutely agreed, the DSR112 does pretty poorly used full range as it produces very little below 70hz. In its case, it isn't the size of the woofer, but rather the size of the box that limits its lower frequency response IMO. It is VERY loud and clear however, with some very sweet and pronounced top end. Actually, it's likely the loudest compact 12" I've tested, but also the weakest LF wise - so yes, always should be used with sub reinforcement. As for the DSR115, it is the complete opposite, with very strong low end that hits hard too. It is an excellent full range box when subs are not an option (or too much of a hassle for a given event). I find the DSR115s need a bit of boost in the mids however as (to me) they sound a little too mid scooped. I own the DXR15s and absolutely love them for my applications. I thought about the DSR115s, but simply enjoy the much better mixer section on the DXRs - which can be very convenient sometimes.

Al 
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kel mcguire

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Re: With subs, any advantage of DSR115 over 112?
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2018, 01:26:06 pm »

Thanks for the advice and insights all. Looks like the DSR112 should be the choice. Right now I have nine QSC K series for monitors and small gig mains. I'm still contemplating selling my old HPR rig of 2 x 153 over 4 x 181 subs. The DSR would replace the HPR153 for a tops option on 200-500 patron events. The subs are the harder decision since they sound good, were paid for years ago and I can't seem to break them  8)  I'be been downsizing, and seem to do less gigs where 4 x 18" 137lb subs are needed. I can always rent

I see these new DZR tops and even the 15" subs, wondering whether two tops and two subs might do everything I need to, plus out-performing my entire HPR rig. And, that'd be an easy one-man load in/out
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