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Author Topic: DiVentix 2 - DVI to SDI conversion - Edge Blending  (Read 654 times)

Nathan Riddle

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DiVentix 2 - DVI to SDI conversion - Edge Blending
« on: May 12, 2018, 01:21:14 pm »

tl;dr

Old:
Mac-Mini (VGA) > input 6 (DVX2) > Out1/2 (DVI) > Analogue Way DVI extender > DVI cable > Projector
1024x768 > 1600x1200 4/3 x2 edge blended.

New:
Mac-Mini (VGA) > input 6 (DVX2) > Out1/2 (SDI) > BM Micro Converter > HDMI > DVI > Projector

---

Can't be HDCP issues as the VGA input isn't HDCP protected.

I've tried different output formats. None seem to work.

I bet the decimator converters would have worked...too bad its out of stock :(

---

Story:
One of the DVI cables failed (flickering/stability issues). Tech director asked me to run convert to SDI and run new cables. Sure, no prob.

I confirmed with analogue way that the BM converters should work no problem before even starting down the path. I feel I've done my due diligence. Now what am I doing wrong?

Video is never that simple though, hah.
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: DiVentix 2 - DVI to SDI conversion - Edge Blending
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2018, 05:25:23 pm »

If there is good signal with DVX2, then is the SDI cable good and appropriate for the distance?

We've had some issues with BMD converters, have you tried an MD-HX (I think they're still in stock)? 

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Nathan Riddle

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Re: DiVentix 2 - DVI to SDI conversion - Edge Blending
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2018, 07:49:46 pm »

If there is good signal with DVX2, then is the SDI cable good and appropriate for the distance?

We've had some issues with BMD converters, have you tried an MD-HX (I think they're still in stock)? 

That's the thing, with a 2ft cable it won't work using SDI into BMD into dvi monitor.

DIV output works, I called analogue way making sure the SDI output was always on. Both support SMPTE 259M so in theory it should just work.

I might have to try the md-hx but at 3x the cost it's a hard sell compared to the lx or cheaper BMD.

For Sunday I'm going to try using the cat5e they ran with some tx/rx I have. Im worried about the long run and not shielded, so we shall see. I might try the 1694a I ran in an analogue configuration.

*shrug* outta ideas.
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Jordan Wolf

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Re: DiVentix 2 - DVI to SDI conversion - Edge Blending
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2018, 10:14:23 pm »

This seems like a ďsimpleĒ resolution mismatch...

When going out over SDI, what is your output resolution set to? If itís anything but a video signal, it wonít work.

BMD doesnít typically like VESA (graphics) resolutions, only SMPTE/PAL (video).

BMD gear also standardizes on SDI type B, vs basically everything else at type A. Maybe you can tweak this in the converter settings?

The DVI extender you used to use could handle both VESA and SMPTE, probably up to 1920x1200/60 and/or 1920x1080p/60. The new converters cannot.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: DiVentix 2 - DVI to SDI conversion - Edge Blending
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2018, 11:16:58 pm »

Nathan,

I think Jordan is right.  I dealt with all this BS and came to two conclusions. 

1 - Use a scaler and convert your input to the projection resolution. 

2 - Keep the resolution consistent from the switcher to the projector.  Use only a native resolution of the projector.

3 - Use a projector with an SDI input.

I have had equal luck with high end scalers as I have with $100 Chinese units.

I love the BMD switcher. 

I picked up a pair of of Christie 8k projectors from Wyatt from A2D (another labster) and it really moved our video chops up to being able to do larger events.

Don't bother buying a screen, you will never have the size you need.  Fast folds are FedEx shippable.  Work with a local company or get an account with VER. 



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Nathan Riddle

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Re: DiVentix 2 - DVI to SDI conversion - Edge Blending
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2018, 11:33:31 pm »

This seems like a ďsimpleĒ resolution mismatch...

When going out over SDI, what is your output resolution set to? If itís anything but a video signal, it wonít work.

BMD doesnít typically like VESA (graphics) resolutions, only SMPTE/PAL (video).

BMD gear also standardizes on SDI type B, vs basically everything else at type A. Maybe you can tweak this in the converter settings?

The DVI extender you used to use could handle both VESA and SMPTE, probably up to 1920x1200/60 and/or 1920x1080p/60. The new converters cannot.

Thanks, it was 1600 x 1200 (4:3), but I saw that BMD wouldn't like that signal type so I tried all the other output resolutions to no avail.

I read the tech sheet saying it should auto switch between type B/A, I was considering grabbing the software and checking the converter settings. But all they had were macs and I didn't have my laptop. I'll try that next. Thanks!

Good to know VESA vs SMPTE/PAL (I admit my understandings of the types are rudimentary). I kinda ascertained that it wouldn't like the 4:3 sizes based upon the SDI sheets stating specifically 1080p/60 and it's multiples/59.97 etc.

What bothers me was the extra output for local multiview which is set for 1080p never worked either. Perhaps it will if I force it to go type A? [I should read up on this]

My fix for now is running HDMI extenders on the CAT5e control cables that were run, but never used.

Yeah, so hilariously the DVI extender works without even being plugged in (at-least the non-broken one).

I should have anticipated this hassle with SDI and pushed back on converting "because digital/SDI is so much better"...

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Nathan Riddle

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Re: DiVentix 2 - DVI to SDI conversion - Edge Blending
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2018, 11:37:15 pm »

Nathan,

I think Jordan is right.  I dealt with all this BS and came to two conclusions. 

1 - Use a scaler and convert your input to the projection resolution. 

2 - Keep the resolution consistent from the switcher to the projector.  Use only a native resolution of the projector.

3 - Use a projector with an SDI input.

I have had equal luck with high end scalers as I have with $100 Chinese units.

I love the BMD switcher. 

I picked up a pair of of Christie 8k projectors from Wyatt from A2D (another labster) and it really moved our video chops up to being able to do larger events.

Don't bother buying a screen, you will never have the size you need.  Fast folds are FedEx shippable.  Work with a local company or get an account with VER. 

Ugh, couldn't have said it better. Do perfectly right from the start and don't mess with it. hah!

Part of my problem is the edge-blending is needed and the projectors are 4:3 so they require the weird VESA/graphic sizes.

I might have to run Cat6 STP and doing HDBaseT instead of SDI if the resolutions won't work with SDI. Either that or scale at the projector with Decimators.

Though I loathe the thought of running more cable as the run is quite a bear.
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: DiVentix 2 - DVI to SDI conversion - Edge Blending
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2018, 11:18:39 am »

To update this thread.

I hate video installs. I'm having to come out and troubleshoot way too many issues that may/may not be related to the install I did.

I switched the 1964a out for trueCABLE (ANSI TIA/EIA 568-C.2) Cat6 FTP [I know not the best; on a budget] and Atlona HDBaseT boxes.

Run is ~160ft so well within the 1080p/60m max spec.

Now the projectors will randomly lose connection and regain it immediately (with a flash to black).

What bothers me is the old DVI extender cable worked fine, but the newer technologies don't work well.

I did some research while writing this and it seems I might need to use higher quality connectors (Liberty AV RJ45-STP-L6) Than the ezEXô44 Shielded, External Ground, CAT6 Connectors I used (big no-no apparently).
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Rob Spence

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Re: DiVentix 2 - DVI to SDI conversion - Edge Blending
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2018, 11:44:26 am »

To update this thread.

I hate video installs. I'm having to come out and troubleshoot way too many issues that may/may not be related to the install I did.

I switched the 1964a out for trueCABLE (ANSI TIA/EIA 568-C.2) Cat6 FTP [I know not the best; on a budget] and Atlona HDBaseT boxes.

Run is ~160ft so well within the 1080p/60m max spec.

Now the projectors will randomly lose connection and regain it immediately (with a flash to black).

What bothers me is the old DVI extender cable worked fine, but the newer technologies don't work well.

I did some research while writing this and it seems I might need to use higher quality connectors (Liberty AV RJ45-STP-L6) Than the ezEX44 Shielded, External Ground, CAT6 Connectors I used (big no-no apparently).

My projector is DVI in. Most of my video is HDMI.
I find that some of my HDMI to DVI (adapters or cables) work and some donít and I cannot see why. Very frustrating.



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Re: DiVentix 2 - DVI to SDI conversion - Edge Blending
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2018, 11:50:41 am »

My projector is DVI in. Most of my video is HDMI.
I find that some of my HDMI to DVI (adapters or cables) work and some donít and I cannot see why. Very frustrating.

Thanks for speaking up about adapters. Never heard of having issues with adapters. I got the highest rated ones on Amazon.
I have a few different models of DVI/HDMI though, I'll try a different adapter for kicks and gigles.

 I'm definitely doing a lot of adapters: [Divintex] DVI > HDMI >  HDBaseT > HDMI > DVI [projector]

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Rob Spence

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Re: DiVentix 2 - DVI to SDI conversion - Edge Blending
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2018, 11:56:23 am »

Thanks for speaking up about adapters. Never heard of having issues with adapters. I got the highest rated ones on Amazon.
I have a few different models of DVI/HDMI though, I'll try a different adapter for kicks and gigles.

 I'm definitely doing a lot of adapters: [Divintex] DVI > HDMI >  HDBaseT > HDMI > DVI [projector]

Yup. A recent gig did

Cable box hdmi to splitter to HD-baseT (150í) to hdmi audio extractor to HDCP stripper to switcher then SDI out (150í) to SDI-HDMI (at projector) to DVI.


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Re: DiVentix 2 - DVI to SDI conversion - Edge Blending
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2018, 11:34:40 am »

Still issues with re-terminated Cat6.

The run is only 160ft well under the 200ft theoretical max for 1080p signal, it's also only running 1400x1050, so even less pixels.

I'm going to replace the run with 150ft of Cat6A Kramer UNIKat cable hopefully that helps.
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Rob Spence

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Re: DiVentix 2 - DVI to SDI conversion - Edge Blending
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2018, 03:29:04 pm »

Still issues with re-terminated Cat6.

The run is only 160ft well under the 200ft theoretical max for 1080p signal, it's also only running 1400x1050, so even less pixels.

I'm going to replace the run with 150ft of Cat6A Kramer UNIKat cable hopefully that helps.
My 150í CAT6 cable is pre terminated and bought on Amazon.

I have found that there are too many variables for me to have the correct parts to put on male connectors on category cable given how few I would do. I gave up after too many failed terminations.

So, I either buy it terminated or I use female connectors in little surface mount boxes and a couple of patch cords.


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Re: DiVentix 2 - DVI to SDI conversion - Edge Blending
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2018, 03:53:40 pm »

The really strange thing is adding a HDMI booster between the DiVentix and the Atlona converter (~1ft) causes the issues to disappear.

And the Cat6 FTP cables test fine with my SignalTek II tester to Gigabit speeds. It's not a Fluke test, but it is real data end to end test.

I'm guessing/drawing straws at this point. But anything to fix the issue.
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Erik Jerde

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Re: DiVentix 2 - DVI to SDI conversion - Edge Blending
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2018, 06:46:01 pm »

It sounds like your best bet is to stick with DVI de to the non standard video resolutions.  You may be best off using a dvi over fiber kit.  Iíve used those with zero problems on gigs.  Gefen makes some good products.
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: DiVentix 2 - DVI to SDI conversion - Edge Blending
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2018, 07:01:34 pm »

It sounds like your best bet is to stick with DVI de to the non standard video resolutions.  You may be best off using a dvi over fiber kit.  Iíve used those with zero problems on gigs.  Gefen makes some good products.

While I'd love to run DVI over fiber. They were incredulous at the price increase from SDI (80$ converters) to HDMI ($300 converters) They're going to kill me at $600 per converter.

Let's just hope the Cat6A works!
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Jordan Wolf

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Re: DiVentix 2 - DVI to SDI conversion - Edge Blending
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2018, 09:40:07 pm »

This is the cable we use, and itís been reliable up to the 180ft spec. for 1080p from Atlona.

I noticed your last cable was simply FTP; the CAT6a I use is SFTP - Iím assuming the extra shielding is what helps with signal integrity.

The Atlona units are very temperamental when it comes to static discharge, FYI. Watch out when winter comes and all the forced air heat dries the air out.


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Erik Jerde

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Re: DiVentix 2 - DVI to SDI conversion - Edge Blending
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2018, 11:20:34 pm »

While I'd love to run DVI over fiber. They were incredulous at the price increase from SDI (80$ converters) to HDMI ($300 converters) They're going to kill me at $600 per converter.

Let's just hope the Cat6A works!

I hope youíre getting paid hourly for this little escapade.  If so then using the wrong gear is going to quickly approach or exceed the cost of using the right gear.
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