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Author Topic: Stage monitors - how much is enough?  (Read 11944 times)

Rick Powell

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Re: Stage monitors - how much is enough?
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2018, 06:49:56 PM »

Thanks Tim.

Check out the DIY coaxial wedge here.

I have 4 of them, probably spent $2k on everything including the drivers, crossovers, wood, hardware, Duratex and renting a table saw to make the cuts. They are great and take up fairly small space, but looking back I wish I'd spent the extra $ to buy the 12CXN76 B&C neo coaxials instead of the heavier 12FCX76 ferrite models.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 06:59:11 PM by Rick Powell »
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Callan Browne

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Re: Stage monitors - how much is enough?
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2018, 08:08:36 PM »

Size != Performance

My SRX812's seem to have as much low end as the prx615's they replaced.

If they were only for monitors maybe i could have got something even smaller for lounge gigs, but i have used them for anything from monitors, foh - with/without subs, guitaramp (axefx), delay speaker, step ladder, etc.
It's more important to me to have a versatile speaker that will do anything I ask of it.

So to the OP, figure out what you need then find a speaker the meets your needs.
Leave out speaker size, wattage (heat), and focus on performance, weight, etc.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 08:22:23 PM by Callan Browne »
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ClarkWG3

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Re: Stage monitors - how much is enough?
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2018, 08:13:48 PM »

All Yamaha passive cabinets for monitors....... 4 - 12s, 4 - 15s, 1 - single 18" sub. 1 - 12" vertical on top of single 18" is drum & 4 - 15s for 5 mixes is our typical, often add a pair of 12s front center, with horns opposite ends, for lead vocal for 6 mixes is a close 2nd. Often have 2 or 3 in-ears added into the shuffle btw, frequency split and biamp the drum monitor.

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Luke Geis

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Re: Stage monitors - how much is enough?
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2018, 10:40:30 PM »

My personal opinion is that 12" is the end all be all monitor size. Drums should and can use a sub, but should have a 12" atop of it.

From an objective standpoint, the 12" form factor is perfect in size, frequency response and level to do the job. They are usually cheaper, smaller and in theory should sound better. There really isn't much a 12" can't do when put up against a like 15" model. If you want all that low end, then go get a three way model and do it right :)

I own the RCF NX12SMA model and I too love it. It gets REALLY loud, is stable and sounds good doing it. Compared to my other Renkus Heinz CFX series monitors ( also 12" ) they really show you what the difference between a coaxial and conventional layout design can do with pretty much all else being the same. The RH CFX121M and the RCF NX12SMA are spec for spec, nearly identical. The RH's are no slouch and certainly sound better than many other monitors out there and that I have owned / used. The NX12SMA's are definitely on another level though. Just about every coaxial unit I have ever used has just been better than a conventional 2 way design. If your looking to get some real wedges, the NX12SMA's are a good choice.

I think the whole 15" monitor thing is more about SPL than sonic range really. The 15" models typically get 1-3db louder than comparable 12" models and this is what sticks in the minds of users and perhaps even some engineers. My attitude is that it doesn't matter how loud a speaker can get if you can't get it loud enough to be heard without feedback. While I haven't had too many bands that were slamming 120db of anything out, my experience has been that if the monitor is capable of producing around 125db peak or more, it should work well for most acts. Now work is the big ? mark. If you can't get the speaker to be stable at the needed levels, it just won't matter how loud the speaker could get.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Stage monitors - how much is enough?
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2018, 12:58:01 AM »

That is a true statement; however, clarity throughout the spectrum is much better from a 15" cone than a 12" cone, highs use same cone

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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Stage monitors - how much is enough?
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2018, 04:38:31 AM »

Size != Performance

My SRX812's seem to have as much low end as the prx615's they replaced.

If they were only for monitors maybe i could have got something even smaller for lounge gigs, but i have used them for anything from monitors, foh - with/without subs, guitaramp (axefx), delay speaker, step ladder, etc.
It's more important to me to have a versatile speaker that will do anything I ask of it.

So to the OP, figure out what you need then find a speaker the meets your needs.
Leave out speaker size, wattage (heat), and focus on performance, weight, etc.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Callan,

I'm going to be designing and building from scratch (as I have done with all my FOH gear), and wanted a target to aim at. It looks like the RCF coaxials are the ones to match or beat.

It'd be relatively easy to slap a 12" coaxial in a box and call it good. I like the form-factor of a pair of 8"s with one of them coaxial, so I'm going to see if it can be done that way.

Chris
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Stage monitors - how much is enough?
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2018, 07:19:07 AM »

That is a true statement; however, clarity throughout the spectrum is much better from a 15" cone than a 12" cone, highs use same cone

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I would love to hear the reasoning behind this statement.
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Mac Kerr

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« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2018, 10:24:22 AM »

All Yamaha passive cabinets for monitors...

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

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Martin Shifflett

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Re: Stage monitors - how much is enough?
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2018, 09:13:14 PM »

My personal opinion is that 12" is the end all be all monitor size. Drums should and can use a sub, but should have a 12" atop of it.

From an objective standpoint, the 12" form factor is perfect in size, frequency response and level to do the job. They are usually cheaper, smaller and in theory should sound better. There really isn't much a 12" can't do when put up against a like 15" model. If you want all that low end, then go get a three way model and do it right :)

I totally agree. Prior to our sound company startup, I was a regional musician and got to use many different wedges before we went IEM. I always preferred our vocals through a 12” monitor for whatever reason.

We took advantage of our Eminence dealership and access to their technical people to build a killer little bi-amp 12” wedge. We tuned it to go down to 50 Hz and it gets the job done in most situations. I typically cut it off with the processors at 55 Hz to be safe. We liked it well enough to build 14 of them and may add a few more. The 12” helps keep the box size to a minimum so the musicians don’t look cut off below the knees like with larger boxes.

We still do not send kick or bass through them unless we are in a bind. Drummers need a sub plus a wedge (higher wedge HPF of course). Bassists need to bring their own amp, but we can accommodate with a drummer sub if needed. Keyboardists have been very happy with them. Everyone else, especially vocalists, love them and always comment on the clarity. Clarity is indeed the key.


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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Stage monitors - how much is enough?
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2018, 12:41:20 AM »

Callan,

I'm going to be designing and building from scratch (as I have done with all my FOH gear), and wanted a target to aim at. It looks like the RCF coaxials are the ones to match or beat.

It'd be relatively easy to slap a 12" coaxial in a box and call it good. I like the form-factor of a pair of 8"s with one of them coaxial, so I'm going to see if it can be done that way.

Chris
The Smithers wedge mentioned earlier is a very good place to start for DIY.  It would take some serious work to out do that.

The dual 8 will have issues.  You would need to low pass the 2nd driver at 1/4 wave of the spacing so that you don't get interference with a weird horizontal pattern.  The main benefit of coaxial monitors is that the behavior in the crossover range doesn't change as you move along the axis of a conventional multi driver box.  So, now that you've low passed the 2nd 8 to avoid the interference, what have you gained?  More LF output.  Which you don't really need for most wedge applications.  Maybe as a low profile keyboard monitor.  I believe in having a small sub at the drum kit if LF is needed to hear the bass guitar or kick drum (while it seems intuitive that the drummer should be able to hear a drum they're nearly sitting on top of the reality is that the snare blocks a lot of it and much of the sound comes off the front head).
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Re: Stage monitors - how much is enough?
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2018, 12:41:20 AM »


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