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[Mark Cadwallader]

It does not look like you have an aux-fed sub channel. Channels 11 and 12 (out) are your main L and R channels.  Those two channels are processed to create a crossover for the subs and the tops. My guess is that the crossover functions are handled by the amplifiers, as suggested earlier by Tim.

[Mike Caldwell]

In this case a picture is not worth a thousand words!!

Do you have two stage wedge monitor mixers, the cables plugged into outputs 1 & 2 make me think so.

Outputs 11 and 12 look there your main Left Right outputs, you could unplug one at a time and see the main speakers go out one side at a time and at the same time check and see if the subs go out when you unplug outputs 11 & 12, if they do your subs are not on an aux.

The Dynacord amps in the bottom of the rack all have DSP /crossover processing built in, maybe they have not been properly set up......or all of us here have seen many times where an installer never set up a DSP and it's just passing signal straight through.

With the three amps I'm going to guess one is for stage monitors, follow the cables from outputs 1 & 2, I bet they go to an amp.

The other two amps are for the main system, but they could be done a couple differnt ways. One amp runs the Left Right mains and the other on the subs or one channel of the amps run the mains and the other runs the subs.

Take a picture of the back of the rack.

I'm guessing your IEM transmitters are being fed from the Allen Heath ME1 monitor stations.

Are there any cables connected to the outputs on the back of the mixer?

As for the installer you should be blaming them for their lack of system training.

Were you with the church when this install was finished or did you come in sometime afterwards?

[Isaac South]

It does not look like you have an aux-fed sub channel. Channels 11 and 12 (out) are your main L and R channels.  Those two channels are processed to create a crossover for the subs and the tops. My guess is that the crossover functions are handled by the amplifiers, as suggested earlier by Tim.

I'm beginning to see that.  It makes sense. 

[Isaac South]

In this case a picture is not worth a thousand words!!

Do you have two stage wedge monitor mixers, the cables plugged into outputs 1 & 2 make me think so.

Outputs 11 and 12 look there your main Left Right outputs, you could unplug one at a time and see the main speakers go out one side at a time and at the same time check and see if the subs go out when you unplug outputs 11 & 12, if they do your subs are not on an aux.

The Dynacord amps in the bottom of the rack all have DSP /crossover processing built in, maybe they have not been properly set up......or all of us here have seen many times where an installer never set up a DSP and it's just passing signal straight through.

With the three amps I'm going to guess one is for stage monitors, follow the cables from outputs 1 & 2, I bet they go to an amp.

The other two amps are for the main system, but they could be done a couple differnt ways. One amp runs the Left Right mains and the other on the subs or one channel of the amps run the mains and the other runs the subs.

Take a picture of the back of the rack.

I'm guessing your IEM transmitters are being fed from the Allen Heath ME1 monitor stations.

Are there any cables connected to the outputs on the back of the mixer?

As for the installer you should be blaming them for their lack of system training.

Were you with the church when this install was finished or did you come in sometime afterwards?

Yes, we have two monitor mixes on our stage.  We have a stage box with "mix 1" on the front (downstage) of our stage.  Then, we have another stage box at the back of the stage with "mix 2" for some other monitor wedges.  We don't currently use mix2.  We don't have any wedges back there.  But it's there just in case, I suppose.

For the amps, the install team said they did DSP in them.  But I'm not experienced enough to know where to look for it at in the amp.

Based on their quote, one of the CF1800 amps is for the sub.  Another CF1800 is for the monitors.  And the C1300 is for the mains.

I will take a pic of the back of the rack tonight (if I don't forget).

Yes, we have ME-1 IEM units on stage.  4 of them.

I'm not sure about the back of the mixer.  Seems like it's just the local channels (wireless mics, etc).  But I'll check tonight.

I was with the church during the install.  I realize some of this is my fault.  Hindsight is 20/20.  Once again, not trying to use that as an excuse.  Just saying....if I knew then what I know now...

Thanks for any input/help you can offer.

[Magnus Högkvist]

Based on their quote, one of the CF1800 amps is for the sub.

It's only one sub? Is the C1800F amp in bridge mode? Otherwise You would be feeding the sub 950 W in 4 ohms when Martin i specifying 3000 W. Bridge mode would do 2800 according to specs.

[Isaac South]

I took some pics of the back of the rack and the back of my mixer. One of the XLR’s is a lapel and the other ones are all of our wireless mics.

Magnus - I still cannot determine if the sub amp is in bridged mode or not. Do these pics help?  (note:  the two C1800 amps are the bottom two amps).




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[David Winners]

Our Nashville trip was cancelled. The wife needed a bionic knee installed and the surgeon had a window open up.

I hope you get things sorted.

[Mike Caldwell]

My take on the amp wiring based on the pictures from the back of the rack are...

The top amp is is running the sub, it's output is wire for bridged mono operation. The questions are, is the amp actually set up for bridged mono, is the crossover properly configured for sub use and what is the sub actually being driven from. The outputs on your AR2412 stage box are fully configurable/patchable, you need to go into the IO patch menu and see how outputs 11 and 12 are patched.


The middle amp is running the mains. The outputs are wired stereo, with only a single input cable so the amp needs to be in a Y input mode not bridged mono and should have proper crossover filtering set up. Again you need to see what output from the mixer is driving the amp via the AR2412 stage box.

The bottom amp is running the two monitor mixes based on the stereo outputs and the two inputs. The amp should be set up for stereo operation, high pass filtering in place and most likely being driven from mixes 1 and 2 from the Ar2412 stage box.

Above was my first thought, there could be a couple other options just to make it interesting.

The top is still the sub amp, the middle amp is the monitors and you only have one monitor mix feeding two monitor locations and the bottom amp is the mains wired and operation in stereo.

The top amp is monitors, still one mix with the amp operating in bridged mono, the middle amp is subs with the single input feeding two outputs (how many sub cabinets do you have?) The bottom amp is stereo mains.


Follow the cables from the amp inputs back up to the stage box to see where they actually connect and then with some music playing through the system disconnect the cables one at a time and see what speakers turn off, let us know. Also hook up the monitors and put music in the monitors and do the same cable unplugging test.

Again you need to check the IO patch menu and see what is routed to where on the AR2412 outputs.

What do the front displays on the amps say.

Also I don't know why they used all the XLR Y cables to feed the stereo inputs on the IEM transmitters and not just put them in mono operation. However they may be or may have tried to take the stereo output from your ME1's and maintain stereo to the IEM transmitters, if that is the case it would take some special cable wiring within those Y cables to do that......based on the rest of this install history I'm guessing they did not do that!

[Jesse Vaughn]

My take on the amp wiring based on the pictures from the back of the rack are...

The top amp is is running the sub, it's output is wire for bridged mono operation. The questions are, is the amp actually set up for bridged mono, is the crossover properly configured for sub use and what is the sub actually being driven from. The outputs on your AR2412 stage box are fully configurable/patchable, you need to go into the IO patch menu and see how outputs 11 and 12 are patched.


The middle amp is running the mains. The outputs are wired stereo, with only a single input cable so the amp needs to be in a Y input mode not bridged mono and should have proper crossover filtering set up. Again you need to see what output from the mixer is driving the amp via the AR2412 stage box.

The bottom amp is running the two monitor mixes based on the stereo outputs and the two inputs. The amp should be set up for stereo operation, high pass filtering in place and most likely being driven from mixes 1 and 2 from the Ar2412 stage box.

Above was my first thought, there could be a couple other options just to make it interesting.

The top is still the sub amp, the middle amp is the monitors and you only have one monitor mix feeding two monitor locations and the bottom amp is the mains wired and operation in stereo.

The top amp is monitors, still one mix with the amp operating in bridged mono, the middle amp is subs with the single input feeding two outputs (how many sub cabinets do you have?) The bottom amp is stereo mains.


Follow the cables from the amp inputs back up to the stage box to see where they actually connect and then with some music playing through the system disconnect the cables one at a time and see what speakers turn off, let us know. Also hook up the monitors and put music in the monitors and do the same cable unplugging test.

Again you need to check the IO patch menu and see what is routed to where on the AR2412 outputs.

It looks to me like the output cables are labeled for the middle (L/R) and bottom (MON1/MON2) amps.

Unless he has been working only from a file made by the installer then output 11 and 12 should default to L/R. Easily testable by playing back music and panning the channel to see if the sub level changes vs the tops.

[Mike Caldwell]

It looks to me like the output cables are labeled for the middle (L/R) and bottom (MON1/MON2) amps.

Unless he has been working only from a file made by the installer then output 11 and 12 should default to L/R. Easily testable by playing back music and panning the channel to see if the sub level changes vs the tops.

I just added to my post some more thoughts.

My guess as well is the default output patching is what is being used.

I think this is case where the installers knew just enough to be dangerous.

[ProSoundWeb Community]